Tim Duncan is about to show the world he's on Lebrons level

He is already the greatest PF of all time, but he is really a center. He played PF when DRob was there, but he mostly plays center.

 

These repetitive threads are starting to get annoying....

 

I completely disagree. Duncan could get to 7 rings, I will never see him on any of those players level.

Shaq, Wilt, and Dream, c'mon. Those are three of the most dominant players in NBA history. Duncan was great, but he never dominated his opponents, like the other 3 did.

If you give either 3, the teams that San Antonio has had over the last decade or so. All 4 could win more titles than Duncan, especially playing in this weaker era. Wilt not having to go through Celtics, year in and out. No teams like the Bulls to really worry about for an entire decade.


Better than Bird. Sacrilege.


I hate bring this up, but I've seen Duncan get neutralized too many times, especially in his prime to consider him on the same plateau with those players. Even their 4 titles aren't particular memorable, because name one good to great team that beat in their runs, outside Phoenix and maybe Detroit. In most years, they only beat LA in their down seasons (99,03). The (Shaq and Kobe)Lakers knocked them out of the playoff 3 out of 4 years.



00-01, 01-02 vs. Lakers (Grant and Horry did a good job on him)
03-04 vs. Lakers (He was a near non-factor in this series with older Karl Malone guarding him)
04-05 vs. Pistons (Wallace and Wallace slowed him down a good bit)
04-05, 06-07 vs. Suns (Amare Stoudemire was having his way with him)
07-08 vs. Lakers (He got thoroughly outplayed by Pau Gasol)

Before this year, they've gotten beat by 8th seed team, swept by Suns in 2nd round of the playoffs, and only managed 1 win off the Mavericks in the 09 Playoffs.

I want someone or any person to go find a playoff series where Wilt, Shaq, or Olajuwon in their primes got outplayed or even taken out of a number of game (in a series) by a lesser opposing center or even Non-HOF players.


Shaq (93-05)
Wilt (59-71)
Olajuwon (85-97)


All 3 are on another level than Duncan. Duncan is a fantastic player by all means, but he never effected the game, like the 4 players above did, on or off the court. It'll be easier to find a comparable player in the future to Duncan than it would be to find another Bird, Wilt, or even Olajuwon. There's no way I would ever consider him top 5. Rings mean something, but how do they make you better than another player who was obviously better.

Wilt's been out of the league for nearly 40 years, and I haven't seen one player come close to what he did in the league.

Olajuwon probably had the most unique skill set combined with athleticism and quickness combined in an near 7 foot body.

Bird - Everyone stop it with the "Next Larry Bird" campaign, there was only one Bird. If you didn't get to see him play, too bad.


Moreover, there's a reason he played and fiddled around with power forward versus center.

 

Not going to lie, im impressed with the way there playing however they have won all the games that they needed/supposed to win. Utah-La we knew was going to be quick! They of course won the first two at home now, but this is where it really starts. This is where they get the real teams in the next two rounds if possible. Yes you guessed im not a big fan of them but still very impressive.

 

If the Spurs win a championship this year, the Finals MVP will be given to Tony Parker, not Duncan. No question he is the lead player.

 

It's not how many minutes you log in that counts, it's what you do in those minutes that count.

 

Uh... troll???

 

The title should be:

LeBron should show the world he needs to be on Duncan's level.

Or

Duncan is about to show the world he can sweep LeBron two times in the Finals.

 

First, Olajuwon did get outplayed by Kemp in 96.
Secondly, if peak was everything, than Bill Walton would be a top 10 player ever. But he's not. It's the sum of their entire career you have to look at. I actually do think that Dream at his peak was better than anything Duncan did, though not by much and he definitely possessed a pizzazz factor, not that that's relevant. Same with Shaq. But Duncan was far more consistent and far more of a leader. He would never do anything like "I got hurt on company time, I'll heal on company time" or get tossed out of a crucial conference finals game for fighting.

Duncan is the linchpin which the San Antonio basketball death machine revolves around. He makes the system possible and has had plenty of dominating performances.

Heck, you overrate his supporting cast. Parker was a chucker until 2005. Manu wasn't great until then. Robinson was ancient. But Duncan outlayed Shaq in 2002. And that's not counting his share of bad luck and injuries- 0.4, Manu's stupid, stupid foul on Dirk in 2006, and Manu getting injured in 2011, which prevented them from defeating Memphis.

That's no more relevant than the trolls who proclaim that Hakeem wouldn't have won two titles if Jordan hadn't played baseball.

 

Yeah and LeBron puts up stupid numbers in those minutes. He does everything.

 

Yeah,

24 PPG, 17 RPG, 5.3 Assists Per Game and 5 Blocks Per Game

In the NBA Finals

Against Dikembe Mutumbo/Kenyon Martin.

With no second star.

Very mediocre player.

 

With Bill Walton, you are using an extreme, because his career was cut short. This comparison is also focusing on Olajuwon, Shaq, and Dream. With Wilt Chamberlain, you are talking about a player who was all-time great in scoring, rebounding, (probably) blocks - if recorded, and arguably the greatest passing center ever. Duncan's supporting cast was arguably better than Chamberlain's, especially considering he essentially had to go up against hall of fame roster, every year.


Shawn Kemp did not shut Olajuwon down by himself, mildly and only had two great games in that series.

You could also reference that Olajuwon was probably passing his prime at that point. That was only one odd series. I listed more than handful of series were other teams were able to neutralize Duncan, even in his prime.

Most of all, it's not panache factor. I will say that each of these players were better scorers, while being about even on rebounds. In Chamberlain's case, he's in his own group. Defense, the only player, I'd really give Duncan a notch over is Shaq. Wilt and Dream are much too arguable. The only thing that I would give Duncan a clear advantage over Wilt in is free throw shooting. He doesn't compare to Chamberlain in other facet of the game, outside of rings.

Shaq was top-notch center, since his Orlando days, easily a 20-10 player for 13 years. 93-05.

Wilt was at least 20-20 player for nearly 14 seasons.

Olajuwon was a 20-10 player for 12 seasons.


Hell, you can just watch the games, Duncan never effected opposing defenses in the way those 3 did. With two of those players, the league pretty much had to change and more strictly enforce certain rules, because of their dominance.

Do you actually think Wilt, Shaq, or Dream in their prime/best (in one of the top 10-12 seasons) are going to be neutralized by a player like Gasol, Robert Horry/Horace Grant, or even as good as they were the Wallaces or (older) Karl Malone)?

 

You know that's disingenuous, no one ever said he was mediocre.

 

lol.. nice one!

 

thanks to the sonics doubling and tripling hakeem the second he caught the ball, almost every single time he caught the ball (and that's not an exaggeration, that was just how the sonics did things). i'd like to see all the times duncan tore it up when guarded like that. i won't, because he hasn't.

duncan's 2002-2003 season is his best claim to greatness. he had a great regular season, great playoffs, great finals and won a title as the only star on the team. but since that season, when he was only 26, he has barely been a "you have to double this guy or he's scoring 30" type of player. plutoblue11 already mentioned some of them. an 83 year old karl malone shutting him down in 2004. the wallace boys guarding him one on one in the finals in 2005 and making him look bad. maybe most damning in 2008 he gets single coverage against tyson chandler and shoots 42% over a 7 game series, then in the very next series gets single coverage from pau gasol and shoots 42.6%! hakeem and shaq would never ever have been held down like that in that many different instances. and he wasn't 35 in those series. the back to back low-40s was at the same age as hakeem was torching all-time centers on our way to championships. and when shaq was still dominating individual matchups.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olajuha01.html

let me know where you see the inconsistency. still dropping a 27 PER in a 3 round playoff run in his 13th season.

 

Why does winning another ring this year make him a better player/passed other all-time players? He's already passed his prime and we've seen all his skills, winning a twilight championship makes him leap frog other great players? He's great, don't get me wrong, but I don't buy into that. If you have a talent level, skill etc, and basically just riding out your career, winning that extra talent level didn't just make you a better player. You're still the same player you just won another championship which is a team effort by the way.

It's like when Kobe won his 5th ring.. It was a game 7 and they barely beat Boston, Kobe had shot.. what, 3/17? After that win they were saying "Kobe has now passed Magic Johnson on the all-time great Lakers". Wait.. WHAT?! So, if they lose that one game, Kobe's not better than a certain player? But if they win that game, he is?

 

This is why we can't rely solely on stats. Timmy has basically the same stats (per 36) his entire career. If he hasn't declined at all, then he has never improved either. Neither of those statements are completely true.

Duncan is still a great player but he's not what he once was. Anything he accomplishes from no on will be heavily dependent on having a better player around him. Thus, it has little affect on his legacy.

Now, if you wanna talk about Tony Parker's legacy...

 

I think what OP is trying to say is that Duncan will start throwing powder before the game and possibly start dancing mid game.