Wow, I can't beleive I've missed out on a whole day of this awesome thread. Good stuff, as usual, oeilpere. Just a few rambling thoughts (I hope you guys don't mind me trying to catch up) ... In the past few days, I've been thinking more and more about the Rocket's draft, and their selection of Collier and Langhi. It sure seems like they want to entertain offers for Cato and Williams, and of course, Drew has been expendable, ever since we found Norris. If Collier meets a need at backup C/PF, Cato is expendable, unless they see him as their long-terms solution. But, they also focused on loading up on picks for next year. I have a feeling, they will package those guys to pick up better Center talent than Cato and Collier, making Cato expendable. He still has value (potential), similar to what J.Oneal has in the open market. Otherwise, we might get a FA center. Williams spurt at the end of last year was critical to his trade value. It wouldn't surprise me if Houston told him just that, motivating his end of the year showcase. If we were to pick up a Fizer, certainly, KT would be expendable, since we still have Collier and Rogers. I think Houston wants to keep him, but if he was necessary to a deal going through, they'd do it. Rogers is also expendable, if he's necessary to a trade. I was intrigued by Francis' comments on them having a couple building blocks in place (didn't sound like Cato, Williams or KT) before the draft, and that they needed to do 7 or 8 more things. TMass, will probably stay. He's more valuable, even though he was injured, to us than letting go or trading, as a backup at C/PF behind Collier. I'd love to pick up Jerome Williams somehow, but I don't see him as starting material. I wouldn't want Laettner or Hawkins, although I've always liked Hawkins. I don't see him fitting on this team, exactly. If there was any possibility of getting Rashard Lewis and Fizer or Croshere somehow, I'd consider this offseason a real miracle off-season, but I don't see those happening, realistically, unless Lewis demanded such a thing to happen, and all I've heard is that he's "interested in coming to Houston." Does Fizer fit on our team, as a player Rudy says we need in that position, as Collier does? There's no doubt Fizer will be one of the better players from this year's draft, but I'm not sure he fits here, chemistry-wise. Has anyone heard if Croshere has any interest in Houston, and why Indiana would let him go? I think they'll let Reggie go, before Austin. If we could somehow get another pick in next year's draft, I'd love that too, to add to who we could pick up, and anything we could do to get farther under the cap would be wise. I see more possibility in something like Maggette for Drew, which would be a good pickup, too. And we could end up signing Leon Smith. Next year is our key year for the major rebuilding blocks. I expect us to try to find a way to get 2 top 15 picks to get a SF and Center in next year's draft. It would be a miracle if we got Curry and Wallace, but it would be great if we got any one of Curry, Chandler, Woods or Brown at center, and Wallace or Morris at SF. Then we'd go for a top PF in FA. I think the Chicago/Portland deal will go down with Oneal/Barkley. Oneal is critical to TMac and Thomas for Chicago, and they seem to like Dabaric, so I doubt he goes. Unless that deal fell through, with TMac signing somewhere else, I don't see them wanting Cato, unless it was a necessary component of getting a deal done with Milwaukee for Thomas. I do see Detroit wanting Cato, but besides Williams, who do we want, and who would Chicago want from Detroit? If Chicago trades Crawford to Portland for Oneal/Barkley, then they might want Drew, but I've heard they like El-Amin and Barkley. I guess there could be a three way deal with Chicago/Milwaukee/Houston involving Robinson/Thomas, Fizer and Cato/Williams, where Houston got Robinson, Chicago got Thomas, and Milwaukee got Cato, Drew, Williams and Fizer, but Robinson might be a little older than we want to build with. oeilpere, do you know if the draft day Fizer/Miles trade fiasco has shut doors between the two teams? Is there still a possibility of a trade between Chicago and LAC involving Fizer? I'm very intrigued at some possibilities here. They seem to be the team that our players would fit best with, even possibly Williams, especially if Maggette and Miles get traded. If the trade winds are still blowing, it wouldn't surprise me if LAC forced Taylor on Chicago. Something like Fizer, Guyton and Hawkins to LAC, and Taylor, Miles, and Richardson to Chicago. I'm not sure that Chicago really wants Taylor hogging their cap, though, unless he got signed for considerably less than the max. You know, the most shocking thing for me that happened in the draft was Orlando sending Maggette and Dooling to LAC. It was brilliant to get LAC's draft pick next year, and to reduce cap space, but it still surprised me. Orlando will get their key guard pieces in next year's draft, I figure. Would there be any possibility of a Cato/Drew to LAC for Kandi/Maggette? I'd consider that one. Now my dream deal would be, if LAC didn't trade Miles to Chicago, would they let go of Odom somehow, such as a Kandi/Odom/Maggette for a Cato/Drew/Williams/Rogers/KT package? Nah, just halucinating ... I got too close to some fireworks today. ------------------ the more I know, the more I know I don't know...
rblh I do not see any way they can sign Hill, Duncan AND McGrady, quite frankly. They have approximately $20-22 million freed up now. They have about $35 Million to spend, but some of that is presently committed. They have some valuable free agents to sign. They have to sign a roster of role players yet, and they have apparently earmarked $18 million for the Duncan-Hill Gang. i would doubt that Duncan-Hill would want to go to a teamn that does not have anyone except themselves to shgoulder the burden of winning. Roxtxia "....la merde profunde ..." Moi oui!!!! La merde de grande magnifique. C'est voire! Ha! Sacre, moyennant de l'humeur enroules moi sur l'etage. "...I see the possibility of sending Mike Miller to Detroit in exchange for Grant ...." Not me. I think Doc wants him and he will stay in the sun with Mickey the Mouse. Mango "...Would Taylor and Rose be going to Detroit as a homecoming or actually think that Detroit was on the way up?......" Well, the biggest problem last year with Detroit was that they only had one real attack to score points. That was Hill, with a bit of Stack thrown in to sweeten the pot sometimes. But it is no sectret that they had a single focused attack. The key as I see it with Rose and Stack and Taylor, is that they now have three viable (four if you count Laettner) offensive threat schemes instead of one. IMHO, they are still a point guard away from hurting anyone in the East though. I am not saying that Drew would necessarily be that difference, but he would be a step in the right direction. A stay-At-Home coachable PG with low cost, low maintenace, and a repertoire of shots that can hurt you if you don't take him serious. A major move to get Eisley or any one the Heats PG's would help. A veteran in Avery Johnson would certainly not hurt them either. ------------------ "Those Rockets are driving you crazy,Dad!" ........ "Ya, I know. Ain't it great!"
I am trying to think of a trade scenario that involves these main players: Atlanta - Mutombo (ends up in Portland) Portland - Jermaine (ends up in Chicago) Chicago - ??? (to Atlanta) What would Atlanta have to get out of this from Chicago and Portland to pull the trigger? Mango ------------------ Eat more spinach! Live long and prosper! Donate blood! Smeg will be assimilated. Now...back to updating The Serious Police Files.
Cisco Kid Just to put the Drew thing in perspective let me say this .......... Obvisously, Drew would be a minor in the grand scheme of any interplay with Detroit or Chicago. However,I mention him because he seems to get the knock that he is useless, untradeable and would not be an effective producer with other teams, which is not the case. We also started talking about how this Duncan-Hill Brownies Mix would affect the Rockets. The spin is that it would solidify Mobes staying with us, and possibly open deals with Chicago and Detroit. That this may include Drew. In short: Drew can play the 1 & the 2 and with experience can develop into a much better true guard (1) than demonstrated. He is inexpensive, undemanding, healthy, coachable, eager, relatively good ball handler, excellent passer, good shooter, above average trey shot, nice floater, is fast and not afraid to drive. He has played in a system that was flexible and included the pick/roll, high post, weakside offense, forward postup-pass out offense and the perimeter game. He has learned the pro switch-off defense very well. He is fair to average at overall defense, but has the skills and fundamentals in place to rapidly improve. If we did not have Mooch and gaping holes ourselves in other positions we wouldn't even be having this conversation. ------------------ "Those Rockets are driving you crazy,Dad!" ........ "Ya, I know. Ain't it great!!!!!" [This message has been edited by oeilpere (edited July 04, 2000).]
Doesn't Drew lose value if he stays on the Rockets next season and plays garbage minutes behind Moochie? Seems like the time to act is this offseason. Mango ------------------ Eat more spinach! Live long and prosper! Donate blood! Smeg will be assimilated. Now...back to updating The Serious Police Files.
So, pere-A deal to Chicago that was based around Cato and/or Drew is feasible? A quick, 3 way dreamcasting move Cato/Drew/1-2 million in exception/future first rounder from Houston to Chicago Bagaric/Walt Williams/exception from Chicago/Houston to Detroit Fizer/Hawkins/Laettner/Jerome Williams to Houston from Chicago/Detroit. Houston gives up approx. 15 million (can take back around 13 mill) Houston takes in 13 million Chicago gives up 4.2 mill, takes back 6.5 (under the cap, so it doesn't matter.) Detroit gives up approx. 9 mill Takes in 4.85 mill (trading down is always allowed). Sorry about that, just having a little fun ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Change the first from Houston to Chicago to a second. Houston sends/cancels the first that they have with Detroit on the Turcan deal. Mango ------------------ Eat more spinach! Live long and prosper! Donate blood! Smeg will be assimilated. Now...back to updating The Serious Police Files.
Sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread ... oeilpere, do you know if the draft day Fizer/Miles trade fiasco has shut doors between the two teams? Is there still a possibility of a trade between Chicago and LAC involving Fizer or Miles? And do you know if Maggette is available for trade? Could we get him for Drew and something? ------------------ the more I know, the more I know I don't know...
Sorry, I have had a hectic schedule and I have been out of town for several days. Including in San Antonio. More of that in a minute. What I have heard and read was: Jerry Krause was approached by Orlando prior to the draft for some possible pick swaps or even a two for one (Orlando picks X 2 for Chicago's #4) and the teams could not come to anequitable agreement. Chicago Jerry then goes to LAC to see what was available and possibly open for trade with them. He basically gets rebuffed by LAC also. The basis of Jerry's moves was to get Miles to the four or make some arrangement so he would be available at the four. Draft day comes and it appears that Orlando and LAC have been found sleeping together afterall. LAC takes Jerry's date (Miles), as their first pick (#3overall) and Krause goes nuts and takes Fizer to spite Orlando. This was supposed to be the LAC=ORL deal according to some insiders. LAC would take Miles. Orlando would take Fizer(because surely Chicago won't pick Fizer, therefore he will be available). Jerry screwed up the deal. LAC gets to keep Miles and then both LAC and ORL develop a different plan "B" for the other half of the deal. Future Deals: My take is, Jerry Krause has too much money and a long memory. There is more of a chance of Wilt coming back to life and playing with a WNBA expansion team, than there is of any near future agreement between LAC or ORL with Chicago. Not unless it is big payback with an obvious lopsided benefit going to Jerry Krause. The Clippers and Maggette: as far as I know, and admittedly I have been out of touch in the West since the day after the draft, is that LAC really like the roster combos, ( maybe it even has a Rocket-like look) with the addition of Miles, Maggette, Richardson, added to Odom, etc..... causing major opponent matchup problems at the 1,2,3. Drew for Maggette. Ya gotta think even LAC wouldn't fall for that!!!! LOL San Antonio : One of the places I had to spend some time on business within the last week was SA. I assume everyone here has seen the press releases about the uproar that "Tim Duncan leaving" ... and may even have seen or heard about the many private citizens and corporations that have bought TV/Radio airtime, and bulletin board outdoor advertising .... all imploring Tim to stay. But the conversation is one everyone's lips. EVERYWHERE! And will not go away until he makes his final decision. Even from people that I know do not know a basketball from a tortilla. A real community effort. I was surprised at the reaction, to say the least. Mmmmmmm. Tim will have a much harder task than even he anticipated. When he left Orlando last week he was making a courtesy call to POP and SA, just let them know he was about 99% sure he was leaving for Orlando. Things may have taken a little twist!!!!!! ------------------ [This message has been edited by oeilpere (edited July 08, 2000).]
If Duncan does stay in SA long-term, I believe that he will be mired in mediocrity. ------------------ My girl wants to ... party all the time! party all the time! party all the time!
