Three-strikes policy: Egypt military fires AGAIN on unarmed civilians and now reporters.

Al-Queda and Hamas are already active in Sinnai and have been for years. Egypt is already at war against terrorists, and drug/arms/human traffickers. They also long history of fighting the Muslim Brotherhood since British times, who as I said previously, were responsible for the Cairo fire and killing two presidents. If the MB decides to return to their troubled past, they will be giving up a lot of hard-earned gains in credibility. As it is, the people already hate them for ruining the country.

I'm not a cheerleader for the invisible hand or the right for the rich to get richer, but this is Bader-Meinhof bull****. The Muslim Brotherhood have a very clear doctrine:

Foreign imperialism might be global capitalism, but it's also science, secular education, pluralism, rights for minorities and women, free speech, and the right for men to go shirtless at beaches.

I wanted to believe Morsi when he gave his speech promising to unify the country, but the reality is, his ideology and goals are no different than Hamas, and no one should fault the Egyptian people for rejecting it after fighting so hard for a free society.

 

I realize I'm responding to the article you posted, and not you, but I couldn't figure out how to attribute it, glynch.

 

Fair enough to attribute Hedges' article to me. I have virtually no disagreements with Hedges.

Now wrt Baider-Meinhof, neither Chris Hedges or me are for terrorism to end the unjust rule of the market backed by the iron fist of the military that leads to starvation and needless suffering in the US and around the world to an even greater degree. Just because such militaristic market rule leads to violent resistance does not justify it. Cetainly Hedges is for civil disobedience which he sees as the only way to break the back of domination by virtually all our politicians by big money.

I think it is virtually common sense to see that folks who are doing better economically are not as prone to extreme religion or martyrdom. Hence Muslims in Western countries and even in Egypt who are better off tend to be much more secular or moderate in their religion and much less prone toward violence or terrorism. There are always exceptions, but many of them are influenced by empathy for the suffering of their neighbors and countrymen.

 

Hamed Abdel-Samad, an Egyptian-born German who is currently spending a lot of time in Egypt, who was born the son of an Imam and who was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood has this to say about them (translation by me, source Facebook):

By the way, a Salafi Cleric who is very closely linked to Muslim Brotherhood leader and former President Morsi had called for Hamed Abdel-Samad to be murdered because he criticized the Muslim Brotherhood.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6HxQlFDRJjE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Morsi's response? Even after the German Foreign Minister demanded a strong condemnation of this Fatwa?

He publicly hugged and kissed the same cleric.

Hamed Abdel-Samad received many death threats after this Fatwa

But of course, according to Northside Intern, the Islamists "denounced violence" and they "don't justify violence in Egypt based on Islam".

I would say that Hamed Abdel-Samad knows a whole lot more than a Canadian intern who has proven to know NOTHING about what is going on in Egypt.

By the way, I am thankful for the positive comments (in rep) I received from Egyptians for my posts on this thread.

 

El Baradei's opinion is certainly respectable and worthy of discussion.

Painting the Muslim Brotherhood thugs as "unarmed civilians who have denounced violence" is not.

In fact, El Baradei's statement points in the direction that he thinks that they will be the ones to benefit from the military's tough stance against them. The Muslim Brotherhood is certainly trying to play the media war. Gullible people (whether journalists or Canadian interns) will fall for this.

It's fair enough if someone with a pacifist stance doesn't want to share responsibility for any kind of blood being shed.

What El Baradei didn't do was to lay all the blame for the outbreak of violence on the military.

It's a respectable position to say that the military should have kept trying to negotiate with the Muslim Brotherhood.

However, the majority of Egyptians - INCLUDING the Muslim Brotherhood - wanted a violent conflict.

 

Al-Jazeera propaganda:

An "injured" Muslim Brotherhood member kicks the doctor when he wants to see the wound - because there is no wound.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WeMXe6MB0gE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I understand that it is difficult for you and others to understand the mentality of the Muslim Brotherhood. They have a death cult. You simply don't understand. You are looking at this with the eyes of a Westerner.

I already cited the Brotherhood's motto:

Please also read the direct quotes - disregard the source, which you will dislike, but the quotes are correct, here:

https://www.standwithus.com/news/article.asp?id=1757#.Ug_yrmS2a2w

You will understand that it is difficult to get a proper opinion poll in Egypt right now. But from all the media reports I have read in German newspapers, the military is more popular than ever and everyone who is not on the side of the Muslim Brotherhood (which the majority of Egyptians is not) WANTS the military to take as tough a stance as possible. They see the military as their protectors. Yes, Egypt is a divided country. But the Muslim Brotherhood is isolating itself more and more.

Please read this article:

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/17/212862415/despite-violence-many-egyptians-support-military

Despite Bloodshed, Many Egyptians Support Military

Egypt witnessed the bloodiest day in its modern history this week. More than 600 people were killed, most during a security crackdown on supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi.

And it isn't over. Dozens more have died since, some in citizen-on-citizen violence. A standoff is going on at a central Cairo mosque, and the nation is spiraling out of control.

Much of Egypt has little sympathy for Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood or their supporters.

'For The Good Of Egypt'

A mile away from the major clashes, in a vibrant shopping district in the central Cairo district of Attaba, people heap praise on Egypt's military — the military that overthrew Morsi after millions took to the streets to demand his ouster; the military that appointed this new government. And the cabinet that this week ordered a crackdown so brutal that there were too many bodies for the state to process in a timely manner.

All of it is for the good of Egypt, says Mustapha Ali, a student who sells watches at this marketplace.

The Muslim Brotherhood are terrorizing innocent people, he says. He adds that he trusts the army. The military would would never hurt Egyptians, he says.

To many here, the Muslim Brotherhood is just a bunch of terrorists. The group propelled Morsi to power through elections last year, and few outside of the pro-Morsi marchers have sympathy for them. It is a narrative that's been, in part, shaped by local TV channels.

On state television, anchors read out the news. A constant tag in the corner is written in English: "Egypt Fighting Terrorism."

On a privately owned pro-military channel, a reporter interviewed detainees overnight. More than 1,000 people have been arrested by security forces.

The reporter put a microphone into a scared looking Pakistani man's face. "Why are you in Egypt?" he asks. "Did you go to the protests?"

The man is bewildered. "I'm working," he answers in broken Arabic. "Just for work."

Muslim Brotherhood Labeled As Terrorists

It is an alarming indication of the broad social mandate for extreme use of force against the Brotherhood and its supporters. The overwhelming majority of the dead are pro-Morsi protesters. The state blames the Brotherhood for concocting what it calls a "terrorist conspiracy" against the state.

"What we're seeing is basically how the army very much shaped the public perceptions of Egyptians," says Ziad Akl, is an analyst at an Egyptian think tank. "On the other hand, of course, what we're seeing is the very normal, expected result of the Muslim Brotherhood's political attitude."

Morsi committed human rights violations during his rule, critics say. He tried to fill the state with his own supporters and exclude others. The bloodbaths today, no matter how horrific, are widely accepted, Akl said.

"We will not necessarily see a civil war, but what we're seeing right now is probably a state of social aggression that the Islamic movement has never known before in Egypt," he says.

As the death toll mounts, the nation is fracturing and the military is firmly in power. The Brotherhood refuses to leave the streets, seeing this as a fight for its survival. And the military and police show no signs of stopping the crackdown.

Tamarrod, the youth movement that started the signature campaign that led to the military coup, is fanning the flames.

Egyptians shelter behind columns after police exchanged gunfire with supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi holed up inside a Cairo mosque on Friday.

"The Muslim Brotherhood says they'll burn Egypt if they don't get what they want," Mohammed Badr, the head of the group, told a local station. "But this country is bigger than them."

He called on Egyptians to protect the streets and stand with the army. Armed vigilantes are roaming neighborhoods and clashing with Muslim Brotherhood supporters. Some among the pro-Brotherhood protesters are also armed.

Tamarrod also launched a signature campaign to reject U.S. aid and cancel the peace treaty with Israel. It was spurred by the U.S. condemnation of the bloodbath on Wednesday.

A Minority In Fear

Back in the marketplace, others echo watch-seller Mustapha Ali's sentiments: The army is saving Egypt from terrorists.

Nasser Sh'aalaan is a minority voice. He sells women's clothes from a shop in the same marketplace. God help us, he says, and drops his head. Egypt's army shouldn't support some Egyptians against others, he thinks.

We don't want Morsi or his Muslim Brotherhood, he says, and we don't want military rule. We want someone humane.

Another man in the shop yells out, God burn the Brotherhood leaders!

Nasser accuses the man of being a remnant of the old regime. It is an argument that echoes across the country as Egyptians watch the country burn on live television.

 

Did you read their motto? How is that not clear? What is there not to understand? Did you read the page with the direct quotes of their leaders?

 

American foreign policy - interest first, second, ..., and last.

 

I have no issues with that.

That does make sense, from an educated Western point of view. Though prosperity, even relatively, can make a huge difference in the ease with which extremist groups can recruit followers, the the MB formed in 1928. It formed specifically to fight British colonialism in Egypt, but specifically, the secular influence by the British on Muslims who were becoming prosperous and moderate.

That's why, even once the British were gone, the MB still attacked the secular post-colonial state that came after. No matter what orientation Egypt's politics, it's will never be sufficiently "Islamic" enough for them. They promised moderation, but the voters who trusted them feel extremely betrayed.

Obama is already coming under fire by the Egyptian government. Putin has has been welcomed by his opportunistic military exercise with Egypt, and the Tamarod movement is threatening to scrap the Israeli peace treaty and all US aid. If that were to happen, Republicans would actually have a real foreign policy failure for once to harp on. It wouldn't hard to spin it into: "Obama supported 'the terrorists' even when the Egyptian people were against them."

I have to work, so I don't have time to hunt it down but General al-Sissi was quoted today, calling out the US as hypocritical with something like "Should America have waited for Nixon to finish out his term after what he did?"

 

I read that Obama tried to call General al-Sissi, but al-Sissi ignored the call and didn't pick up the phone. Obama's administration is messing this up. Foreign policy doesn't seem to be his strength.

 

Well frankly Obama has no strength. I'm being serious. He is good at nothing. He has no accomplishments and cannot make decisions.