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Three-strikes policy: Egypt military fires AGAIN on unarmed civilians and now reporters.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/14/egypt-clear-cairo-sitins-live

    three-strikes policy? Fine, you give the Egyptian military a pass on the first mass massacre. Maybe you even give it a pass for the second. This is the third documented instance of a mass shooting of civilians, and now journalists are being turned away, or shot at!

    To what extent are people willing to accept this savagery, just because the targets are nominally affiliated with political Islam?

    American foreign aid to the Egyptian military has to be cut off, and similar sanctions as those applied to the Chinese after 1989 have to stand. This is sickening, and the fact that very few are willing to take a stand ("deep concern" from the British FCO, as if that'll help") is "deeply concerning" in of itself.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I am not saying that there are no transgressions by the military, but this Mohamed Soltan guy is from a very fanatical background and might have faked an arson attack against him before. His father issued a fatwa to demand the killing of the Israeli ambassador. Clearly, this guy has an interest in propaganda for the Islamist cause. http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/...s-them-asking-what-did-we-do-to-deserve-this/
     
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    and Alaistair Beach and Tom Rayner, the Independent, Sky News, AFP, and all of the reporters on the ground have an "interest in propaganda for the Islamist cause".

    massive number of civilians are getting killed, and you focus on the background of one guy who is tweeting about it? seriously.

    Say it with me: there are transgressions by the military. Massive transgressions. The kind of transgressions that should see military figures jailed, and at the very least, sanctions or suspension of foreign aid. These is almost NOTHING worse than shooting at unarmed civilians! And this has happened three times. If you're still quibbling, you need to think about what biases prevent you from condemning these crimes.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    It is interesting to see your outrage now, as opposed to when Islamists do it.
     
  5. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I follow Saeid Kamal on FB (he's a Gazan journalist that covers Syria and Egypt). He just posted a lot of photos that are extremely graphic. You can follow him on FB if you want updates. He mostly writes in Arabic, but he's saying that mobs are attacking the police and burning cop cars, etc, and the police are fighting back. The mobs have also reportedly killed some journalists as well as killed students in an Engineering college. He also says the fighting is not just in Cairo, but in Alexandria as well.

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  6. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    The Islamists (or I should say, the rioters, whomever they are) are killing plenty as we speak...not just cops but students and journalists, at least according to Saeid Kamal. As an aside, I'd say this is where social media like twitter and facebook shines...it's basically a raw news feed directly from journalists on the ground before an editor bakes it into a story to appease whatever bosses want for ratings.
     
  7. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    kinda like you focusing on American aid and its role in this atrocity?

    hypocrisy is fun!
     
  8. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I did not blame or condemn America for these actions, but this should spur a change in the Obama Administration's stance on giving aid to the Egyptian military.

    Anything else is simply irresponsible. America should not be greenlighting these actions.

    If you cannot tell the difference between a call to action for a state in response to a massacre, and nitpicking one reporter (out of many backgrounds) who are reporting about it rather than condemning the action at hand, I cannot help you.

    Better than the texxx "OBAMA FAULT" auto-response I suppose.
     
  9. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Now it's being reported that Morsi supporters are taking out their anger on the Copts and are burning churches & the Salafists are calling on them to stop.

    I wouldn't a plan a trip to visit the pyramids any time soon.
     
  10. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I condemn the mob if this is true, but you have to look at the initial catalyst.

     
  11. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Patiently waiting for Northside Storm to start a thread on this and feign outrage.

    It's so transparent how desperately he tries to paint the Islamist mobsters as victims and victims only, and to blame the USA for everything. He is the Canadian Mathloom. These two guys are something else.
     
  12. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I am outraged about atrocities in general, but I believe the 100+ threads started about the negatives of political Islam are enough of an outlet to vent my outrage when it happens.

    It is interesting to see how you automatically try to pick at people, rather than the core contention. I do believe this is indefensible material---and you're simply proving it.

    The military is way out of bounds.
     
  13. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Where is your source? I have documented mine.

    I'm not picking this up on the NY Times, the Guardian, or BBC.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23683035

    And since you cite a known Islamist and son of an Islamist hate preacher who incites murder as your main source, I guess a respected Christian broadcasting network should also do as source:

    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/August/Egypt-Christian-Islamists-Threatening-Slaughter/

    It's telling that you obviously WANT to question this, as if it was in any way in doubt. It shows that this doesn't suit you and your propagandistic efforts.
     
  15. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Mostly twitter chatter, occasionally with links to arab press. Most of the chatter is from upset Muslims denouncing the violence on Copts.

    link

    Reports: Mursi supporters torch three churches in Egypt
    Wednesday, 14 August 2013
    Riot police officers run during clashes with members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi. (Reuters)

    AFP, Cairo

    Supporters of deposed Islamist president Mohamed Mursi torched three churches in central Egypt on Wednesday in reprisal attacks as police dispersed demonstrations in Cairo, reports said.

    The assailants threw firebombs at Mar Gergiss church in Sohag, a city with a large community of Coptic Christians who comprise up to 10 percent of Egypt’s 84 million people, causing it to burn down, the official MENA news agency said.

    Security officials told AFP that another two churches were attacked in el-Menia province, leaving them partially damaged by fire.

    Coptic rights group the Maspero Youth Union reported the same information, accusing Mursi’s Muslim Brotherhood movement of “waging a war of retaliation” against the country’s Christians.

    Dozens of Mursi supporters were killed on Wednesday as security forces moved in to disperse them from two major protest camps in Cairo that they have occupied since around the time the army ousted him six weeks ago.

    The Coptic church backed Mursi’s removal, with Patriarch Tawadros II appearing alongside army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi as he announced the military coup on July 3.
     
  16. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Your story simply says Coptic minorities "fear a backlash".

    Why wouldn't there be fear and terror at a massacre?

    Are you missing the other headlines?

    A Sky News reporter was just killed...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/middleeast/egypt.html?hp

    Appointment of 19 Generals as Provincial Governors Raises Fears in Egypt

    A return to dictatorship? The military thinks it is above reproach at this point. It was way out of bounds, and it is threatening to spiral Egypt into chaos. I am not forgiving those idiots who choose to fight fire with fire, and attack others out of anger, but at the very least, all sides have to be condemned, and the military has to bear the blunt of the consequences for unleashing this mess.
     
  17. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Journalists seem to be getting harassed by both sides. Just saw this, but it's two days old.

    link

    Two journalists held and beaten by pro-Morsi demonstrators
    Published on Monday 12 August 2013.

    Reporters Without Borders is appalled to learn that two journalists, Mohamed Momtaz and Aya Hassan, were held for several hours and beaten by supporters of deposed President Mohamed Morsi while covering a march organized by the Muslim Brotherhood in Cairo on 9 August.

    The Union of Journalists told Reporters Without Borders that Momtaz, who works for the newspaper Veto, was accompanying the march towards Al-Nahda Square when several demonstrators grabbed his camera and began to hit him. Then they took him in a car to one of the tents erected by the demonstrators in the square, hit him again, forced him to undress inside the tent, interrogated him and accused him of spying. He had to be taken to a hospital when released three hours later.

    Hassan, who works for Youm 7, was photographing Momtaz being attacked when the demonstrators turned on her, seized her camera, and roughed her up. After surrounding her to prevent her from leaving the march, they escorted her to a tent in Al-Nahda Square, where she was interrogated, searched and repeatedly hit while blindfolded.

    During interrogation, she was ordered to admit political affiliation and to provide the names of people she knew in the interior ministry, the armed forces and in the opposition to Morsi. Her repeated insistence that she was “just a journalist” did not prevent the mistreatment.

    In a video account posted on YouTube and transcribed by Youm 7, Hassan has described the mistreatment she received for more than four hours. “One of the men dragged me by my hair along the ground into an adjacent tent,” she said. “He kicked me in the face until my nose began to bleed. He then gave me a piece of cloth covered in blood, and warned me that I was going to suffer the same fate as the person who had been punished in this place before me.” The Union of Journalists said he was apparently referring to Momtaz.

    “What happened to these two journalists on 9 August is intolerable,” Reporters Without Borders said. “The Egyptian authorities must deploy whatever resources are necessary to ensure that these abuses do not go unpunished. They must ensure that media personnel are protected.”

    Although especially violent, these two attacks are unfortunately not isolated. Morsi supporters have repeatedly prevented Egyptian journalists from covering their demonstrations and have deliberately targeted them if they work for media that are not ideologically sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood.

    On 8 August, for example, Muslim Brotherhood supporters interrupted Sky News correspondent Rufayda Yassin while she was covering a demonstration live.

    Mohamed Tarek, a photographer with the newspaper Al-Masry Al-Youm, was surrounded by pro-Morsi demonstrators during a sit-in in Cairo’s Raba’a Al-Adawiya Square a few days before that. They grabbed his camera, deleted the content of its memory card, and returned his camera only after expelling him from the sit-in.

    The Egyptian authorities have meanwhile been taking harsh measures against news media that support the Muslim Brotherhood. Reporters Without Borders has registered 52 cases of journalists being arrested since Morsi’s removal as president on 3 July.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Yeah, I can see how you would love to ignore this part:

     
  19. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I condemn all attacks on journalists.

    With that said, I cannot believe that people are letting their biases get in the way of condemning something that should be plainly obvious is a bad sign for Egypt's future. Journalists are being killed now, in cold blood.
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Where was your outrage when Morsi appointed a known murderer and terrorist as governor?
     

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