You don't usually want your bench to severely outscore your starters (79-50). (I think this will be a continuing trend) The lineup with Starters + EG has a higher Ortg than the starting lineup with bev. bev. excels while running the second unit. The starting unit sometimes causes offensive lulls within games, because there is less shot making and ball movement/pace among the starters. Now combine all of that...and assume that we can have a starting lineup with a higher (Ortg.) and still have a gordon level (or better) scorer with the second unit (lou), keeping the second unit formidable, In theory eliminating some of the dead zone that comes when Beverly, Ariza, or Anderson can't hit the broad side of a barn, and harden is having trouble penetrating. Essentially, Harden will constantly have a second creator/scorer with him on the floor. @Mathloom
The operative word here is "usually". Your post makes total sense if we were playing a game where the first team to reach a certain number of points wins, but we're not playing that game. We're playing a game where the team with the most points wins. You've totally ignored defense in your assessment, which is strange. There are two factors here, points scored and points allowed. Right now, our starting unit is playing really well in the first quarter and that's what matters most to who starts. You've made another hidden assumption here, which is that we only play the starters together and we only play the bench together. Again, that's not true. We have substitution patterns where starters and subs are mixed most of the time after the 1st quarter. Replacing Beverley with Gordon/Williams is obviously going to have a positive impact on our offense. But again, we're not just trying to score. We're trying to score more on the other team. Our starters are already scoring more than the other team at an excellent rate. When you replace Bev with Gordon/Williams, what you should be looking at is the net difference in points scored vs points allowed. Where we find a dip in net points is in the 3rd quarter. This is where to possibly tamper with our substitution patterns. The starting unit, btw, does not have significant offensive lulls. That's a factually incorrect statement. We would not be the 2nd or 3rd best offensive team in the league if there was a statistically significant imbalance where we are having offensive lulls more often than the average. Yes, there are periods where we don't annihilate other teams' defenses. There are also times when we annihilate other teams' defenses. This is normal, because we're taking more 3's than everyone ever, but it doesn't mean we are having significant droughts. You know where we are having significant droughts? On defense. We are not even in the top half of teams on defense, and our defense disappears regularly. A statistically significant amount from the average. So yes you can shuffle around scorers to even out your scoring, but why on earth would you do that with the offense performing at an elite level already and the starting unit is killing it in the first quarter? You want to know what else is significant? Our starting line up is just not that good, and it's not about the difference between Beverley and Williams, which is negligble in the grand scheme of things. This starting line up is making miracles playing night in and night out against teams that have better 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players than we do. Where we can realistically bite those teams is to hit them hard when their starters are sitting, since our starters are somehow outperforming them already. We do that by having the best bench in the league. Your post seems to indicate there is something wrong with having an amazing bench. An amazing bench + starters that beat their opponents = recipe for success. We WANT a great bench as long as our starters are doing their job, which they are. I would agree with your assessment if we were coming out to slow starts (a subject that @heypartner analyzed crystal clear the other day) but that's not happening. Our starting unit is winning. Our bench is 10th in the NBA. We needed to boost out bench. People really don't understand the value of Beverley after all these years. He keeps beating people out, and that's because our coaches and analysts see that when he is on the floor with Harden, we do really well. There is a clear reason for that. Harden is not a good defender. You need to surround him with two defenders. We would never be able to outscore people if we had to take into account Anderson and Harden's defense, along with Gordon/Williams suddenly going from guarding bench players to guarding the best guards in the NBA. I know it's fun to imagine, but reality is different. If we put an average or minus defender next to Harden, Bill Russell wouldn't be able to protect the paint, nevermind Clint Capela and Nene, who are also trying to cover for Ryan Anderson. Bev and Ariza are necessary parts of the starting line up and team. They get shredded up on here because their games are not as sexy as others, but they are the ones performing the miracles limiting the best guards and guard/forwards in the NBA to just average nights. Not to mention these guys shoot upwards of 38% on a high volume of 3's while doing it so they are not liabilities. When we need to shake things up, we bring in Gordon/Williams and they can wreak havoc in certain matchups or against the other team's bench. But on average against NBA teams, I can't even fathom how much we would sink if our 2nd best defender on the floor against NBA starters was Capela, followed by Gordon, Anderson and Harden. That is a recipe for disaster, and we tried it already btw.
This is still one of the greatest player intros ever in the history of the league. How sick would it be to bring this back for the playoffs this year......Matt Thomas is the PA announcer again, so it would feel completely authentic. Have a Like, you magnificent b*stard.
Why do we care if the bench outscores the starters? As long as the starters are not being outscored by the other team’s starters, why does it matter? Besides, the level of competition the bench faces is not really equal to what the starters face, so it’s not really apples to apples. Bev might be good at running with the 2nd unit, but he is better than any of our other guards at running with Harden due to the way he plays; he picks up Harden’s defensive slack and is good at shooting threes. That’s what Harden needs. The starting unit plays slower because Harden doesn’t push the pace. That’s not his style and I really with people would stop trying to make it his style. He lets plays develop as he brings the ball up. If he sees one manifest, he throws that long pass. If nothing happens by the time he gets to the 3pt line, he will either run a PnR or go into ISO to try to either create a shot, penetrate and score, or penetrate and kick after pulling in an extra defender. This is his game. The bench, on the other hand, does not have an offensive savant like Harden and require more set plays and a higher pace to achieve the same type of offensive effectiveness. To be more specific, the 2nd unit doesn’t have someone who can handle the offense nearly as well as a singular point of focus. This isn’t just the Rockets. This is really any team that is highly dependent on a ball handling superstar to create everything; when that star sits, the game speeds up. When we say that Harden needs another playmaker, we do not mean one playing next to Harden. That playmaker can play next to Harden, but it is more so to have a player who can help create points when Harden’s game is off or he is on the bench. If Harden’s game is off, we can bring in Ego or Lou. Otherwise, just let the bench run the opposing team’s bench off the court.
You and I may be the only 2 on the board that thinks like this. Most love Bev too much to even consider that he would be better off the bench.
And I see they convinced you also now. (why you give up so easily without a fight?) lol As long as we keep winning, I don't care. But my opinion stands for reasons that I have given in many posts in other threads already.
Lou Williams with a wet jumper having to play "garbage minutes" because the Rockets don't have enough towel wavers to put in the game, has to be some some sort of insane torture for the opposing team. #savagemode
Eric Gordon as well. We literally didn't have any other guards to put in there. I forget it while I was watching honestly and wondered why Gordon was still out there.
Seeing this makes me mad that Les changed everything up after he got handed two championships. Give us some retro championship gear and not dildo pajamas an Chinese jerseys.
I imagine MDA was getting ready to sub Ego and Lou out, looks at the end of the bench, and went "Oh damn... that's right. We got rid of our scrubs... Bobby, get out there!"
arguing with @Mathloom requires thousands of words =). I don't disagree with his point that Beverly's lost defense may neutralize Gordon's gained offense. I don't want to invest the manpower in a response. haha Like you said though, we will see what happens when (I mean if) they hit another wall.
The problem when you play 3 guard sets is that only one of your guards is resting . If you play Ariza at PF , then that means only James is resting . I agree that Harrell at PF constitutes a fundamental change with how we play .. So it prolly won't happen . But if you have Williams , Gordon or bev , Dekker that's enough shooting . Trez can make enough 16 footers to design an acceptable offense . Nene can shoot ok too . I don't mind our three centers sticking to the C , but then we only have 3 forwards for 2 spots . If you play three guards there it doesn't exactly give us much rest . Say you want lou to take 12 min from guards and 12 from the 3 . Seems perfect on paper , but when you have to plot out the minutes and give rest it's harder to do . Maybe this last game was an aberration because we effectively played Ariza at the 4 ; so I guess we will have to see what Mike does when Ryan gets his spot back . But in the game last night James , trev , bev , and Gordon all played about 30 min .... And they sat at the end . If it's a close game at the 6 min mark , those guys have to go back in or stay in . So while I like the minute totals from last night , how we got the distribution will have to change for closer games.
