1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

This offense is straight offensive

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Bo6, Feb 26, 2024.

  1. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    8,829
    Likes Received:
    11,610
    Are we over achieving or have we just had a favorable schedule and some luck with other team's coming in injured? I think we are a better team defensively and Amen getting steady playing time and Dillon having a career year has helped. Our offense is not conducive to us hanging onto this "overachieving" record.

    FVV has declined and Ime's reluctance to get away from a FVV/Sengun centric offense is why I think our playoff aspirations will come up short without change. Jabari's injury forced Ime to move Amen into the starting line-up where he should have been all along. I truly believe with better rotations, we would have won 4-5 more games and built the cushion we needed to weather Jan. and Feb. Ime has recently moved FVV off ball and if he can fight his instincts and keep this mindset we might be able to unleash Amen and Jalen and still be a 1-6 seed.

    Like Mathloon, I have an optimistic view of our future and am excited when we win. There is nothing wrong with making suggestions on how we get to be contenders and critiquing players, coaches, and the front office. It is what makes this board worth coming to. I am so sick of people telling me to relax and enjoy the ride, which i have been doing ever since the re-build started. Good steady progress and player and coach development is what make the Rockets an exciting team to follow. RAH, RAH, RAH sis-boom-bah is for casuals.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    20,257
    Likes Received:
    21,219
    Alright man, I already respected your position, not interested in flinging poo back. Thanks.
     
  3. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,898
    Likes Received:
    32,800
    Poor shooting (and therefore spacing) and no individual who can consistently create buckets.

    It's honestly impressive we manage to even have an average offense in the modern NBA with those handicaps.
     
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,313
    Likes Received:
    41,997
    What's funny is that Jalen Green has always been in the top 90tj peecrile in "shot creation quality" as in "level of contested shot off the dribble". So Green creates a lot of decent looka for himself. He's just not making them.

    If you said "shot making" that would be different. But guys like Sengun and Green have no issue with shot creation.
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    20,257
    Likes Received:
    21,219
    Right. Me asking to go from 25th to 22nd or something is so outrageous, to you it's like asking Ime to perform as though he has SGA. Because if we got a top tier playmaker we're just going to sightly improve our offense right?

    Or is what's happening here you know full well a top tier offensive player would move us up 10-15 spots while I'm asking to just get a little better at making shots?

    If you're going to overdramatize it man how do we have a genuine discussion. Thanks for the talk chief. I think when it gets to this point, it's usually because there's nothing left for the person to share. Thanks.
     
  6. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,898
    Likes Received:
    32,800
    That doesn't really help us now does it.

    I didn't say create shots, I said create buckets. Missed shots no matter how "open" don't create buckets. Amen and Senguns amazing looks from the 3 point line sure don't help either.

    If Jalen is ever able to actually utilize these physical tools to create space then we're having an entirely different conversation, but we've been waiting 4 years for the exact same looks to start going in.
     
    DaDakota likes this.
  7. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    19,925
    Likes Received:
    31,265
    Jalen using that gravity to create for others is the next stepping stone. He's been doing more of that lately and the offense looks better when he does. Jalen finishes 70%+ from 0-3 feet so I'd say thats decent. If he made MORE of the easy misses then he'd start to get more "efficient" even while being underwhelming in the other shot zones. He bends a defense like no other player we have.
     
    harold bingo and fchowd0311 like this.
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,313
    Likes Received:
    41,997
    Buckets or shots? Because here you are saying he isn't creating space when I'm litteraly telling you he creates space and the data shows he's elite at it and he just isn't making his shots.

    There is a difference between Amen/Sengun taking a open jumper and Green. Green is streaky. The other two are just bad(Amen) or unconfident(Sengun) shooters.

    I've made this point ad nauseum on this board by now but a young guard having shooting consistency issues during a period of his young career of adjusting to the type of conditioning required to be a high level two way player in the NBA means that there is hope that maybe when he's the ripe old age of 23,24 or 25 that conditioning becomes set and he has the legs now to shoot consistently and give the consistent effort he's been giving on defense this season. Stuff like his ft% and how you can literally hear opposing team commentators go "oh oh" when Green makes two in a row, knowing he has the ability of going on absurd hot streaks. These are all signs of a young player going through the conditioning phase of their careers. If Green was 28 being this inconsistent, I'd understand having no hope. Ya then just label him a "more athletic Clarkson". But I can guarantee you that Jordan Clarkson at age 20 would not be playing this level of defense and averaging 22 points on a god damn 2 seed in the West.

    Jalen Green still has a realistic shot at being a Booker level player in his prime. If he didn't show the defensive improvement this season and was putting up these offensive numbers I would give up on that hope. But the level of effort he is showing on defense and still at this age can put up 20 on a two seed makes me hopeful that by 25 he can be a elite efficient scorer on a elite NBA team.
     
  9. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    15,588
    The Rockets are 12th in offense despite not having an elite offensive talent playing like an elite offensive talent*. That isn't overdramatizing things. Picking on a piece of the offense that is bad, highlighting it, and pretending that piece is so much more important than the whole and then posting "If you're going to overdramatize it man how do we have a genuine discussion. Thanks for the talk chief." is overdramatizing things.

    *The Rockets may have a guy that will be that guy, but if they do, he's still very young, and not showing it so far this season. The Rockets may slip a little in the ranking, but expect them to stay near the best offenses without an elite offensive talent.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,010
    Likes Received:
    13,734
    Probably a little bit of both. We have a good net rating so we are taking care of business and not just winning lucky games. We play an exhausting style as well that might favor early season success but we will see.

    I just view this current iteration of the Rockets as having far more defensive potential than offensive potential and I think it was shrewd to lean into it. I don't see another offensive gear to unlock, which isn't the same thing as saying there aren't tweaks.

    I understand making suggestions since this is CF.... but just some of them ring hollow and feel more like denigrating.
     
  11. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,010
    Likes Received:
    13,734
    My mistake, I thought you were being sarcastic.
     
    Mathloom likes this.
  12. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    38,399
    Likes Received:
    26,586
    the Offense:
    [​IMG]
     
    Strawberry Gum and Mathloom like this.
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,313
    Likes Received:
    41,997
    You don't think there is another offensive gear to unlock on a team that is the second youngest team adjusted for usage rate where the youngest team in that regard are the Wizards? Hard disagree.
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,010
    Likes Received:
    13,734
    That doesn't come from a trade, injury, or the expense of our elite defense? No. It's more of a matter of making shots.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,313
    Likes Received:
    41,997
    I gotcha. You are saying there isn't a quick fix that isn't at the expense of the level of defense this team plays. That I agree.

    At this point its a matter of "get gud" as in the young guys just get conditioned to play this level of defense and have the stamina and legs to shoot consistently. It might happen it might not.
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    20,257
    Likes Received:
    21,219
    Alright dude, the point at which you made it personal I tried to walk away and you decided to double down on being an *******.

    We moved up to 12th because our TS% went up, you f*cking monkey. You're the one who's arguing nothing can change unless we get a star tier player and it just changed before your eyes. Now you're acting like the 12 is here to stay. How does someone not know they're embarrassing themselves this much?
     
  17. MystikArkitect

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    12,949
    Likes Received:
    20,588
    It's funny because Ime's choices at times are at war with Stone's choices. Stone basically doubled down on Green....with mixed results (putting it kindly). That being said, Ime's reluctance to give Green a better running mate and bog him down with FVV/Sengun/Dillon/Jabari....has produced those mixed results. Jalen is here for a while. He won't be traded this summer (I dont think).

    Just let him run with Amen for the rest of the year and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's either the inconsistent bench spark plug he's always been....or if he's actually a game bending talent that provides so much stress on a defense when paired with another game bending talent in Amen Thompson. Sengun is a great passer off of rebounds. Sengun rebounds. Amen/Jalen gun it. Then if we didn't have anything there we can reset and run through Sengun. We will turn it over more without Fred. But does Fred's ball security really outweight all of his other many many many limitations?

    Ime signed off on Green too. Need to see if he's long term or not and FVV/Sengun offense has been a half measure. I'm comfortable seeing what Green has (even if I do think he'll probably disappoint) because he has made defensive strides and he can be trusted on that end.

    giphy.gif
     
  18. StroudAndYorDaddy

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2023
    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    701
    sengun is not jokic
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,313
    Likes Received:
    41,997
    One major advantage Jokic has is he is significantly harder to double and make him make mistakes passing off those doubles because he is a lot longer than Sengun. He sees over a lot of defenders and doesn't miss weak side cutters or shooters and make errant passes from those doubles as much. How many times have we seen Jokic just keep the ball high from defenders when doubled playing keep away and just drops the ball over the defender when someone like MPJ or Gordon cut? Sengun can't do that. Its a limitation Sengun has that will prevent him from reaching that level. He is quicker and more agile than Jokic though.
     
    harold bingo likes this.
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Rockets forever!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    126,991
    Likes Received:
    36,549
    Wrong thread.

    DD
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now