This is why you should NEVER NEVER Talk To police....

How would you have a stop without probable cause? Yes, someone can stop a vehicle on reasonable suspicion - and in that case you're right they can't search - but that is a rare circumstance.

The original poster asked if he didn't consent what could the officer do - well, right or wrong, the officer can arrest for the traffic offense and search from there. Moreoever, in all automobiles exigency is implied by the nature of the vehicle. Hence, a warrant is not needed. If an officer can articulate probable cause for the search that's all that is needed. I've tried many a motion to supress - and this is a well-settled piece of law. I'm not sure which cases you're reading, but this is actually something defense attorneys don't even argue with, its that well settled.

 

sorry it wasn't the original poster who asked that, one of the early ones did though.

BTW, I'm not advocating about whether or not this is good or bad - just what the law is. It is well settled that you don't need a search warrant for a car - that's the big difference between a car and a house.

 

Aren't you a lawyer?

BTW..

You can not pull a car over for reasonable suspicion. If it is parked and they're suspicious, well, that's a different story.

 

if you look or act suspicious, the cops can pretty much do what they desire, hate it or love it. too many dumb asses out there, cant afford to play nice.

 

There are tons of traffic laws and each and every one of us commit them every time we get behind the wheel.

If I see you fail to signal a lane change, that's probable cause to stop you. It's more than reasonable suspicion. That's all I was saying.

 

It may be a police officer's right but that does not mean it is right especially if it has happened to you before more than once and they NEVER found a damn thing!

I'm with DD as I do not hold police officers to a higher standard than anybody else. I believe too many times they abuse their power whether it is through something as vicious as police brutality or something as simple as turning on the lights and siren to skip a red light. I know that not all of them do it but I have dealt with more bad ones than good ones in my experiences.

"Remember the Titans" had a good quote that I like to apply to police officers and society in general. Police officers are the leaders of law enforcement throughout society and attitude reflects leadership.

 

yea yea, i meant acting suspicious when the officer has already pulled you over.

 

Yeah, don't be acting suspicious.

 

Yes I am a lawyer. You CAN pull someone over for reasonable suspicion. For example if you see some cross over the line one time - the court of appeals has said that is not sufficient for the crime of failure to maintain a single lane, however it can be reasonable suspicion for DWI. Reasonable suspicion gives officers a right to detain, just not arrest. You can't search based on reasonable suspicion - but you can detain for further investigation.

 

Okay now that the whole car thing has been settled. What do y'all(WWR) recommend I do if I am having a high school party with alcohol?

Personally I think most cops dont care about busting high schoolers, the only reason they even show up on site is because of whiny neighbors. So talking to the cops and being honest with them and promising you will keep everything under control is what I would do. I've seen many times when cops have just issued a warning at parties(never happened to me though).

But on the other hand this thread says abstain from talking to the cops and astros318 on the first page of the thread provided an example where he talked to the cops and got off clean by doing this:

I doubt that this is true. Im pretty sure cops have more authority than this, especially with that exigent stuff. And if you slammed your door in a cops face Im pretty sure that would piss him off and make him come after you with a vengeance.

Help?

 

I used to not like cops and thought they were always out to get me when I was younger. But then I met some at my gym and realized they are good folks who just just have a highly visible job.

 

The situation I had in mind was like an encounter a fellow officer had about two weeks ago. A car was parked in a neighborhood in a conspicuous location with no lights on. The neighborhood is well known for thefts and burglaries. As soon as the officer's patrol vehicle was located by the subject, the subject turned his lights on and drove off. That was suspicious, very suspicious, but he couldn't initiate a traffic stop based on that suspicion.
He stopped him for a paper plate not being visible and wound up getting the guy on a serious felony.

But your example is right on.

However, DPS pulls people over for crossing over the shadow line (which I think is the line on the right) and I believe that is their PC.

It is all in how you articulate it I guess.

Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about. What a relief! LOL

 

Well, the scenario you posted where astros318 did what he did is alright.
This is not something I have a lot of experience in, but I will give my opinion.

Just because a neighbor calls in and says there is a party and alcohol being consumed does not mean that you have exigent circumstances to enter a residence.

If the officer looks into the house and see what he reasonably believes to be a minor in possession of an intoxicating beverage, he then has reasonable suspicion to investigate further and detain that person. I would get with my Sgt. before I entered the residence.
It's really not that big of a deal. That kid is going to keep drinking no matter what you to do him.

But say there is a 911 call, or a call to the PD about a possible disturbance of some sort at that residence. Well, then you have a duty to investigate further because you have cause to believe someone may be in harm in that residence.

 

So what Astros318 did actually works? Just promise youll keep things controlled and close the door?

In the part I bolded, isn't a phone call from the neighbors saying that the kids are being too loud considered a 911 call? Disturbing the peace im assuming.

 

WWR,

Have you ever asked a person if you could search their vehicle? If so, why? What would you do if they said "No."

 

I wouldn't be rude to the officer and close the door. But if you don't want him to look into your house, then that's fine.

I would ask if I could come in and just have a look. Then if they still closed the door on me I'd just wait in the area until they started to leave and start pulling them over looking for DWIs.

It is an unobserved (officer didn't hear it) class C misdemeanor. In my jurisdiction, before we can write a ticket or arrest for loud music, we must get a decibel meter reading.


If a neighbor calls in and says, "I heard a girl screaming like she was getting raper and/or killed and I saw a guy swinging a chair at her through the window...etc, etc, etc whatever," then you'd have a circumstance where you'd have to investigate a little further and enter the residence.

 

Usually someone who has something in their vehicle they shouldn't have is going to be obviously nervous. You just pull them out and question them. If there is a passenger, you get their stories lined out and see if they're lying. If they're lying that gives you some cause to dig a little deeper. You build up to asking them if you can search their vehicle. You just don't say, "I am Officer SOandSO with BLAH PD, I stopped you for speeding, do you mind if I search your vehicle?"

Probably less than %5 of traffic stops are you even going to think about doing a search, must less asking them to step out to have a little talk.

You also look at where their license plate return comes from. If it comes back to a town kind of far away and they don't have a legit reason for being in the area, that is suspicious. But by the time you're questioning them, you've already seen where they live by their address on the DL.

Also, there are several known drug houses in the area and if that car was seen driving away from that area that is also suspicious enough to warrant you asking them to search.

It's basically a case by case basis.
You can tell when you are dealing with John Q. Citizen vs. Tommy Turd.

 

I see you edited your post.



Id' rather not discuss that on public forums!!

There are a number of things you can do.
An obvious one I don't mind mentioning is getting the K9 dog to come take a sniff.

Once the dog hits on a car, the whole car, bumper to bumper, is fair game to search.

 

nevermind...enough stuff stirred up in here.

more importantly - how do i appeal a speeding ticket in court and get away with it?

 

Paying the ticket vs. lawyer fee/time isn't worth it.