Gater, You're right, he would be a liability against ALL teams. But his offense would be the same as Posey, and while decent, his defense wouldn't be anywhere near Posey's.
IMHO, initiate the half-court offense through Yao should not be as difficult as the Rockets exhibited. Here, let me try to present to a setup to just do that, with the above quote of yours in mind. It is a basic setup in the tripple post sideline offense. Start with Yao fighting position in the post at the left side. MoT is at the right post. Cat at the top of the key. Posey at the left wing. Steve brings the ball up and hands off to Posey and cut to the left corner. Posey tries to throw an entry pass to Ming. If Ming is down low and no fronting, and no other defenders in the passing lane, then a typical line of deployment for the entry pass to Ming is formed. Ming has the ball down low and back to the basket wth one defender back. Ming can try to be the Dream and score. If Ming is down low with opposing center fronting, and no double team from the opposing power forward, then this sideline triangle is a better way for a lob pass. If the opposing power forward intends to double team, swing the ball to the key and let Cat the MoT to explore that. If Ming is not low enough as it happened quite often, or Steve's or Posey's defenders are in the passing lane, then ball can be passed back and forth among Ming, Steve and Posey. Or Steve and Posey can do post split for Ming's baseline handoff or for Steve options at the elbow. When all five players buy into that, there will be a lot of options for all five to score with good spacing. The offense will be far more unpredictable. Shots will spread around to explore better mismatches. With regard to your threat from the elbow, I think the Rockets can mold their double high post PnR into a basic UCLA set for better usage of Yao and MoT. Allow me sometime to do some due dilligence.
Who says Francis is a converted SG? Who says Griffin is the right PF for this team? I certainly didn't. Francis is a PG. Griffin isn't anything yet. Unless he changes, you are right, he's a bad fit for this team.
The biggest problem with the Rockets is their inexperience, which lead to inconsistency. If they can get 1 or 2 veterans who can provided stability, this team can make the playoff, go very far there. Two quick things the Rockets can do to make an immediately improvement, a reliable ball handler, a veteran rebounder. Francis is not the PG you want to handle the ball all the time, his league leading TOs proves this. He is terrible at controlling game tempo as well. If you take some ball handling away from him, the offense will be much better since he can concentrate on his penetration/cut more, other players know they will get the ball as well if they open. You don't need someone very good, just someone who can play 12 to 15 minutes controlled game, a guy like Mark Jackson, or Brian Shaw. The other thing is a PF with a reliable midrange J, someone like Horance Grant. I know he is old, but 10 good minutes is all you need from him.
and why do you insist on judging brand/miller on their performance with a team that is the worst managed team in the history of the nba? on a team with an absolute VOID of team chemistry? on a team that has a LAME DUCK STARTING 5? jeez! and you'd rather have francis/odom than miller/brand? as much as i like lamar odom, i could not disagree more. there is no way you pass on a 20/10/2.5 POWER forward that does not demand the ball. a man that can be the brute to yao's finesse. odom is not a consistent point forward...he is an occasional point forward...else they would not have gone for dre miller. and, still, you'd have a ball dominating steve francis on the floor when you should be running the offense through yao ming.
I agree the way the players are being used is ridiculous. We don't necessarily need to change the players or even the rotation. We just need some sort of offensive system that will utilize the players right. I don't need to see Yao try and back down a player stronger than him, get double teamed, have no one to pass to b/c our offense has no movement, and then commit a turnover - and then never see the ball again for a quarter and a half. I don't need to see Yao set a pick and roll to the basket while Steve takes a fadeaway 20footer over 2 defenders. rudy needs to majorly overhaul his garbage offensive methodolgy very soon OR just get lost and let Les bring someone with some common sense and a playbook. This team is being wasted.
Sane, if you're going to tell me that francis is a point guard and not a converted shooting guard, i just don't know what to say...
verse, Whether or not Francis is a PG is a never-ending debate, so let's agree to disagree there. I didn't say I'd rather have Brand over Odom. I said I'd rather have Odom and Francis over Brand and Miller. I've heard enough from Cleveland/Clippers fans about Miller's habits, his problems, and his defficiencies, and I think Francis is head and shoulders above him, EVEN AS A PG. If I we were trading, and the choices were Brand or Odom, obviously, I'd go for Brand. We only need an occasional Point Forward anyway. The idea is to split the offense between Yao Ming, Lamar Odom, and Steve Francis. To switch between whatever's working on whichever night. Brand is brilliant, regardless of his team. Andre Miller is a certain TYPE of selfish player. He does too much to make sure he gets his assist, regardless of whether or not he makes the game harder for his teammates, or whether or not it's the right decision. I'm sure you'll immediately point to his 8+ assist average, but he's not a scorer, and passes for the stats, not for the game or the team.
Can someone please fax this over to Rudy and his assistants? Tim? Otherwise, Mac's simply preaching to the choir. Doesn't do anybody any good if the guys in the suits don't hear 'bout this. Tim? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Sane: i understand what you're trying to do - having odom, francis and yao alternate, and in theory it sounds like a wonderful system. it sounds eerily similar to francis, mobley, and yao alternating or francis, yao and griffin or ... i just don't believe that francis will execute a system like that. i just believe it's his instinct to score and that he just flat out doesn't "see" the correct pass to make. and i don't think he can do anything different without suffering tremendously from "thinking on the court too much".
Continue my previous response. I am not impressed by the doble high post PnR so far, especially not with EG in it. Often those picks are set too high near the arc. With a zone defense, I have no idea how this can be a better way to use Yao and MoT. So, here again, let me try to present a UCLA like setup with the emphasis on good floor spacing and options. Yao at the left elbow. MoT at the right elbow. Cat at the right wing. Posey at the left wing. Steve brings the ball up and pass to Posey, then do a post rub with Yao and cut to the basket. If Posey can't feed a cutting Steve to the basket, he can pass to Yao at the left elbow and do a criss-cross with Steve. At the same time MoT motion to do a down screen with Cat at the low block and turn to the basket. Cat motion around right elbow. Yao then has 4 options: (a) pass to Cat off down screen by MoT; (b) pass to MoT flashing in the middle toward the basket; (c) Posey doing down screen for Steve during their criss-cross and Yao passes to Steve for a pull up around left elbow; (d) turn around and shoot over the opposing center, depending upon defensive reads By Yao. This setup also allows Yao and MoT to switch the role, allowing MoT's mid-jumpers and weak side options with Yao and Cat, in addition to Steve's cutting to the basket or mid-jumper. Both setups also would allow Posey's wide open 3s if the opposing defense pays more attension to Yao. The floor spacing will be much better, Steve and Cat will have more mid-range pullups. Above all, the offense will be much more unpredictable with more options. Yes, it's easier said than done. But since the Rockets have done anything consistently well as far as offensive system is concerned, and their dribble-ISO offense is getting very very old. Just talking about new opportunities become more exciting than actually watching and figuring out what they are doing on the court now. It's time for the Rockets to go back to the basics.
I don't think that getting Brand is the answer to the problem as outlined here...although he would be an intriguing acquisition, I still think we'd be left with the problem of a round offense running through a square point guard. I would use Cuttino, et al to acquire the kind of sg that would fit..a couple examples of the type of player I'm thinking of would be Gilbert Arenas and Alvin Williams...combo guards themselves, but with skills more complimentary to Francis. I don't think Posey is the answer at 2, as he doesn't have the handle... Going with an Odom as a complimentary point forward is an interesting idea ( Paul Pressey where are you?) and it has occurred to me before...it's a thought.
Is it beyond the realm of possibility for the Rockets to sign Scottie Pippen to a contract in the offseason? Is it unacceptable? I mean, only Mobley was on that team, and he loves Pippen. Lots of people still hate him, but is there a better fit?
My guess is that Rudy would LOVE to run the offense through Yao, but he's not willing to dump that kind of pressure on the kid just yet. Maybe we'll be seeing more of it in the months to come, and by next year we should get a really good picture of the future of the Rockets. Unfortunately, that leaves us with a sputtering offense this year -- which in turn puts pressure on Yao anyway. Personally, I think Yao can handle it, and I think by now his teammates should be aware that he's got a sharper basketball mind than they do. They should welcome this kind of change.
Great points and pretty much what I've been saying all along also. The part I especially like is the, stamina part with Ming. When Cato is back, the Rockets normally sub him at about the 3 mins mark left in the 1st qt. What Francis and the Rockets should have done is what they did in the 3rd qt, establish Ming early and often. Cleveland came out early and got big z going, we came out and Francis had x amount of shots along with another assortment of players. In the 2nd half when we started to get Ming going, he put fouls on Z and we got to the foul line early. If this was to happen early in the game, just think how many fouls he can draw and more importantly the big man feels needed. Once the defense has to adjust and doubles Ming like every other team always start doing, then creases and space is created. Jordan during his days in Chicago used to always get Cartwright,Grant, and Longley going early in the game. He knew that if he kept the big guys in the game, it would make it a lot easie on him. They big guys would play with more energy and fire and they would just in general play better. Just like Francis, Jordan knew he was going to always get his shot attpt so it would be no need to force shots or get himself going early on. This is coming from a guy who was a shooting guard. The pg suppose to get people going early anyway and get people shots. 2 plays in general that irked me was the 4 on 1 fast break when steave had a posey streaking for a easy dunk and instead chose to shoot a high arcing difficult finger roll. Another was a pick and roll with him and Ming in which he penetrated so deep, he made the pass way too late and tried to throw it behind his head. If he had made the pass as soon as the roll started, Ming was there for an easy dunk or layup. The thing is, the offense and to's are down when Francis doesn't handle the ball much. As long as he handles the ball alot, you can count on at least 4 to's every single night.
Great points in this thread. Ming needs to be involved in the passing game but can Francis or Moochie make a decent entry pass to him or to Taylor/Grifffin or Posey? How can Yao be setup in the half-court if he doesn't get the ball quickly and effectively? Yesterday I made a suggestion of trying to trade Cato for a backup point guard like Snow even though I don't want to trade him but unless our passing improves we can't win. We must make every effort to get Yao involved very quickly in the game without that we can't win. I think that Francis can penetrate and dish the ball to him at times but Yao also needs to position himself a little better as well in the post so he can avoid the problems with double and triple teams. I agree with MacBeth that Francis is not likely to be a very good 2 either. He is a combo guard and not a specialist at either position.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to bring in a few guys from NASA. It would probably take a few rocket scientists to explain this to Cat and the rest of the Rockets.
The simplest solution to me, and one that was "slipped" out earlier in this thread, is for a coaching change. Van Gundy was mentioned, although I don't see where his coaching skill set is all that different from Rudy's, except that he is someone else and probably would demand results - which, I guess, is probably what the team really needs. I'm not saying Rudy is a bad coach - if anything is obvious, it's that Rudy T. gets "it." I do, however, question his ability to make his team get "it."