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Things that don't and won't work

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by basketballholic, Nov 26, 2015.

  1. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    I have said several times that this team has ZERO chance of success without integrating Ty Lawson and let him be the primary ball handler when he is on the court.

    James Harden has to swallow his pride and play as a true SG who will still get his chance at initiating offense but not as often as he is used to. He needs to come off screens, make back door cuts etc. It will make our offense much more dynamic and unpredictable

    Right now this 100% Harden ball handling and initiating may eek out regular season wins but come playoff time when defenses are locked in on him and can scout over several games, this is not a recipe for success.

    Might as well try let Ty start now. it's not like we are on some great winnign run with Ty seeing little playing time.
     
  2. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.
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    I'll echo here....

    1. Walking across halfcourt around the 17 second mark. All 4 teammates ran down to stand in the corner for 15 more seconds. Useless possession that happens quite often.

    2. Terrance Jones. The only 6'9'' 250 pound professional baller that I'm pretty sure I could box out for rebounds. Like....pretty sure.

    3. Role players playing too many minutes. A strength of this team was supposed to be bench depth, role players galore, matchups, etc. We've seen none of that, we've seen so little it's like we've basically reversed that thought. The bench has no quality depth.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    You appear to be on top of your game. I readily admit you are more knowledgeable on basketball than I, but I find it hard to believe that Harden can't guard 3's. Last year, the defensive numbers for him that I checked were pretty good. He wasn't guarding 4's last year. He doesn't appear that much fatter this year - it's not affecting him on offense anyway. So, how is he now incapable of guarding 3's? Not arguing with you, just probing for more info.
     
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  4. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Contributing Member

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    He's capable of defending them but would get destroyed on the glass. The issue with this team is not only defending but defensive rebounding as well. Also take into account when defending a big use your lower body so be prepared for a dead legged Harden in the third quarter. Answer is we need Dmo back yesterday!

    ***My bad I tought we were discussing James guarding 4's
     
    #44 Blurr#7, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  5. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Another question - what's the deal with Harrell's rebounding? I know he has had limited minutes and is a rookie, but I've always thought rebounding was a skill that did not take long to develop.
     
  6. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    I have to agree with Oak on this one...

    Harden does a better defensive job with 3's and 4's then he does with any guard position.

    Harden does not like to move or chase after guards and gets lots quite often... He's actually a pretty good rebounder, so guarding a 6'9 PF is no big deal... Guarding taller PF is another story.

    T_Man
     
  7. basketballholic

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    I don't remember saying he couldn't guard 3's. I said he isn't even going to be good guarding a lot of 3's. For instance Kyle Korver. You'd think he could guard Korver. But Harden isn't going to work that hard defensively. Korver runs through screen after screen then he catches and fires very quickly. Harden isn't going to be able to keep up with a guy like that defensively. Korver is going to get loose and hit the 3 with Harden making a half-hearted effort to get to him with a hand up.



    He can guard some 3's. But if the 3 is an active, quicker 3, he's going to have trouble. Harden's got a wide base. He's simply not quick enough to stay with those type of guys.

    You put Harden on the worst offensive player of the 3/4. For instance against GS with Barnes/Green at the 3/4. You put him on Green. Green is going to want to bump and grind him in the post. Harden's strong enough and quick enough to be a decent matchup for Green down there, whereas Green totally burns up Terrence and Ariza has trouble containing his strength down low. Green isn't a great 3-point shooter so when Green spots up high, Harden can fade off, anticipating the drive, and help out in the passing lanes. Barnes??? Barnes will catch and fire in a heartbeat. He's long and athletic. And now he's developing his game at the rim. Much tougher matchup for Harden. I'd rather have Capela on Barnes, Harden on Green, and let Ariza work up top against Curry/Thompson along with Bev.

    Spurs??? Leonard and LaMarcus at the 3/4. You put Harden on LaMarcus and let Capela check Leonard. Capela's got the length and the quick feet to possibly bother Kawhi. Harden's just going to get in foul trouble against Kawhi. Or....possibly you let Harden have Green if Green is standing around spotting-up on the perimeter. There's a possible 2-matchup that Harden might be able to take. Although in past matchups Green has just flat-out smoked Harden outside. But you've got to figure out what works. I think in all likelihood Harden's best matchup on the Spurs is LaMarcus. Let LaMarcus shoot that 17 footer that he only hits at about 42%. And let Capela cover Kawhi. That's what I would try anyways before I reverted to James on Kawhi or Green.


    The 3/4 thing is something the coaching staff has to feel out. It really doesn't matter which one Harden defends. But it's got to be a bigger, slower type player that isn't going to run him through a pile of screens and isn't going to backcut him constantly and that isn't a tremendous catch-and-shoot 3-point shooter that Harden should be matched up against. So that means the overwhelming majority of the time he should be matched up against 4's. Especially this year when he's showing regression back towards the terrible defender he was in 13/14.

    By the way, thinking about Harden's defensive assignment, along with knowing how terrible we were playing with Terrence at the 4 alongside either Dwight or Capela is what brought me to the conclusion that Capela is our only hope right now on this roster to a successful double-big lineup, at least until DMo gets back. I got to thinking about Capela having the defensive flexibility to play against a lot of 3's because of his length and quickness.

    To let you know how far out of the box I go, I'm actually tinkering in my mind with the idea of a huge lineup when DMo returns. I'd really like to see a Harden/Ariza/Capela/DMo/Dwight lineup. I know you can't play all those guys together for extended minutes because somebody has to back up at the power spots. But........think about it with me. Why not? GS plays Draymond at the 3,4, and 5. Who do we have with that kind of defensive versatility?? Capela.

    Offensively, Harden up top with Ariza and DMo on the wings, Capela setting the pick, and Dwight hanging out on the baseline to clean up the trash. Or double post. Or DMo coming over for pick-and-pop action.

    Defensively, you've got Dwight and DMo on the 5/4, you find the opponent's worst offensive player, their spot-up player, their least skilled perimeter player, stick Harden on him, and then you can play around with Ariza and Capela covering the opponent's 2 best perimeter players.

    Yeah, I know most posters would say this is totally r****ded. But....let me remind you....I was the one that was constantly calling for the Dwight/Asik double-big lineup because I knew that Terrence was going to be our weak link defensively and since he couldn't space the floor anyways we might as well have had Asik in there. I was right then. I am right about the Capela/Dwight combo instead of Terrence/Capela or Dwight/Terrence.

    And we are 7-11 and going nowheres real fast-like. We have nothing to lose with trying things at this point.


    You also know I have advocated constantly for McDaniels to get some run at the 1 defensively alongside Harden. I still think we need to try this. In combination with Harden/Ariza/Capela/Dwight...the other starters. What if...that lineup catches fire defensively and forces a pile of turnovers and bad shots from our opponents that lead to a ton of runouts for us????


    And I think we have to recognize the obvious negatives such as Harden defending 1's and 2's. He was matched up with Reggie Jackson last night for crying out loud. That's stupid. It's just as stupid as running Brewer and Terrence out there....in any lineup. Terrence is a negative in any lineup combination except possibly when the opponent has their 3rd string center in. And Brewer has turned into the same thing. Brewer is playing so badly there is no reason not to give McDaniels run. There's no way McDaniels could be worse than Brewer right now.
     
    #47 basketballholic, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  8. Texanasiafan

    Texanasiafan Member

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    OK, here are the analytics based on the facts you provided :

    1. So that means this : since Harden almost plays about 40 minutes per game, that means about 85% of the time, the Rockets are playing 4 vs 5 on defense.

    2. TJ is playing much less the last few games, but you would still expect to see him playing 15-20 minutes per game, and that means 40% of the time, the Rockets are playing 4 vs 5 on BOTH offense and defense when he will be on the floor.

    3. Now we are forked. So not only Harden is playing no D, but the whole collection of the PG/SG are playing like shlt too, that means over 95% of the time, we are playing 3 vs 5 on D, and if somehow TJ will be on the floor at the same time, we are playing 2 VS 5 on D!!!!

    4. So if Lawson must play PG only, that means he must be playing with Harden together, so that's by default 3 vs 5 on D, and if this combo will be teamed up with TJ (which is our early season starting lineup), we are totally forked. But if Lawson will not be playing with Harden, then we are forked also, because the other dumb asses aren't playing and D also. So the conclusion will be : DO NOT FORKING PLAY LAWSON AT ALL!!!

    5. So basically you are asking a guy whose already doesn't give a fork on defense to stop doing to much on offense and should also start to not give a fork more, sounds like a great plan.

    6. So you are asking a team whose playing 2 v5 or 3 v 5 to play man to man tight defense with high energy the whole game? When can you be available for the next Rockets coach interview? This forked up team needs you.

    7. So you want Brewer to drive to the lane and than finish strong on the basket like he did the last season? That's fair, oh wait.....

    8. Dwight should not touch the ball at all, we don't give a fork if he is making 22 mils and / or consider if he will resign here.

    9. So instead, Brewer should shoot more 3s.

    10. In order to do that, first you need to ask Harden to give up the ball early, and then find a PG that can make a simple entry pass to Dwight, and at the same time, you can not play Bev / Terry /Lawson on the floor otherwise you will get killed. Should we make a trade for Lin again?

    11. Dwight needs to shoot more FTs.

    12. Again, when will Morey call you for an interview?
     
  9. Texanasiafan

    Texanasiafan Member

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    other than the half assed dumb jokes above,

    seriously please stop finding rational excuses for this sorry ass team.

    There is no fix unless a major overhaul on the roster.
     
  10. basketballholic

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    Not worth a response.
     
  11. JoeBarelyCares

    JoeBarelyCares Contributing Member

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    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14262815/after-lost-decade-knicks-find-right-path

    7. James Harden, stopping the Earth's rotation for no reason

    Harden is one of the league's best isolation players. It is generally a good thing for Houston when Harden stops the ball, surveys the defense, waits for some help defender to slide an extra step toward him, and then wings a bullet across the court to that guy's man. (It would help if that teammate could hit a shot, but that's another story).

    But too much Harden-ball can plunge the team into a morass of stagnation that demoralizes other players. One particular irritation: Harden loves to have a point guard screen for him, and feast on smaller defenders if the opponent switches. That's good isolation! Smart defenses catch on fast and stick a bigger guy on Houston's point guard, so that the switch doesn't produce a size mismatch.

    And yet, Harden still stops the ball as if he's sizing up a munchkin.
     
  12. shsu33

    shsu33 Member

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    That is super far outta box b/c two names in that line up that cannot ever play together at the same time lol. Ted Cruz's double Commerce blunder is better than Perry's oops I guess but Texas politicians gotta stop listing off things during live debates.

    Anyway, the line up of Howard/Capela/Dmo/Ariza/Lawson or Harden is something we should def try, not like season will get any worse if we don't. Lawson/Harden may be a defensive liability but in that line up its not the worst thing, offensively they should be looking to drive & dish/lob. Dmo can't get back fast enough!
     
  13. basketballholic

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    Thanks. Fixed it.
     
  14. digitallinh

    digitallinh Member

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    he's constantly out of position both for rebounding and defense, which is why he doesn't get a lot of time. He's one of our worst defenders at the moment right down there with Brewer.
     
  15. basketballholic

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    13. Running Lawson out there with anybody else at the 5 besides Dwight.

    Lawson is a sieve defensively. He has to have Dwight backing him up in the paint or it's just an automatic layup by the opposing point guard. You put Capela out there with Lawson and the opponent has a layup drill going. Gotta have Dwight out there at all times with Lawson.
     
  16. Cashmoney

    Cashmoney Member

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    Brewer is far worse than Harden defensively.

    Far worse.
     
  17. basketballholic

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    posted this on 11-26. Two months later we're watching Redick just torch Harden.

    It's gotten to the sublime now, where I'm picking the winner/loser of the game simply by watching our strategy for the first 5 minutes of action.
     
  18. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    _holic, it doesn't matter who Harden defends, he is still going to get lit up.

    He started defending Reddick - Reddick lit him up
    They moved him to the corpse of Paul Pierce (who is not a starting back court player) - Pierce who had done nothing up to that point lit him up
    They moved him to Jamal Crawford (who is not a starting back court player) - Crawford lit him up

    He just doesn't give a **** about defense. There is zero effort, zero focus. It's completely lackadaisical. You cannot win in this league playing 4 on 5 defense and you really can't hide Harden on anyone anymore. They will either just blow past him or shoot while he is thinking about the strip clubs
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Harden is the new Jeremy Lin, a guy who opponents love to torch when he is guarding them.

    No one respects Harden on D, no one.

    DD
     
  20. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    Have to agree with this....

    This is killing his teammates who are constantly rotating to pick up his slack...

    T_Man
     

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