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Things that don't and won't work

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by basketballholic, Nov 26, 2015.

  1. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    1. Midrange jumpers.
    2. Coaching
    3. Chemistry
    4. 1st round picks
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

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    5/50 threes < 25/50 twos

    i know on paper its sounds ecstatic that you get an extra point if you shoot a three. but in real life its much harder. ask jordan, he didnt even use that shot like these guys do
     
  3. Mr Chuck Norris

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    He was definitely cross matching last year. The scrotum swallowing of Golden State restricted me from watching this year.
     
  4. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    A+ post. will rep.

    i would add to what doesn't work:

    1-in-4-out offense that relies on drive and kick to get open 3s. it worked for miami but with only james doing anything its a bunch of standing around and then forcing contested 3s. we simply dont have nearly enough talent on the roster to play this style. when you have all-stars on the perimeter you can play this way... when you dont, you have to have some off ball movement to get easy shots.

    there's a thought. easy shots. this offense doesn't create any easy shots. drive in the paint against 3 defenders and hope for a foul isn't an easy shot. contested 3s arent easy shots.

    so lets talk about things can could and would work:

    1) off ball movement. there are other ways to create open shots besides james breaking down the defense. he cant do it all for 48 minutes over 82 games. i would like to see a few down screens to get the guards open looks (jet, harden, ariza, thornton could live off of this), and i'd like to see some baseline screens and back door cuts to get guys open going to the basket (brewer alone would KILL off of that kind of motion).

    2) harden in different spots - post him up or give him an off ball screen. he's even more dangerous if the defense doesn't know where he's getting the ball. right now its too predictable. and to harden's credit he's putting up monster numbers even though the defense knows exactly where and what he's trying to do. imagine what he could do if they didn't know where or what he was going to do.

    3) new ways to post up dwight - listen, i'm against him posting up most of the time. its either a brick or a turn over. but why not have a perimeter player set a screen for him off the ball and have him dive straight to the rim? at best he's open for an alley-oop. at worst he gets great position and can just go up for a dunk. for example - start dwight on the left block, bring ariza along the baseline for a pick so dwight can dive to the right block. now either dwight has a SF switched onto him with great position, or he's open because the defending center is late getting around the pick. you can also perform this from the high post with dwight diving diagonally across the paint (from the left elbow to the right block or vice versa).
     
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  5. Snow Villiers

    Snow Villiers Member

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    I think Montrezl needs more playing time than Tjones at this point. Tjones is what he is.
     
  6. basketballholic

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    What does Dwight need to stop doing to help this team won? What is Dwight doing that isn't working and isn't going to work?
     
  7. basketballholic

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    So, Things that could possibly work:

    1. Agree with you, off-the-ball movement. We are seeing more of this since JB has taken over. That's why we are looking better. But it needs to be expanded upon much. We should be setting a ton of off-ball screens. When you can't shoot you gotta screen even more.

    2. As was stated earlier, move Harden down to the 4, move Terrence out, and go 4 smalls with a big with your Harden/Ariza in the front court and some combination of Thornton/Brewer/McDaniels in the backcourt with possibly one of the point guards at times. We might be able to swallow down a subpar defender in the backcourt if we can get Harden to the front court where he can compete better on 4's.

    3. Continue the definitive experiment of KJ defending 1's. Specifically starting 1's. Need to give him a start and see how it goes. We have nothing to lose at this time. Let him start at least one game at the 1 and see how it goes, then proceed from there. If he does well, continue. If he gets creamed then regroup, move Brewer to defensive point and move forward.

    4. Make it a rule to start games with a steady diet of Harden/Howard in the pick-and-roll. Make those guys run that play and make them practice it until they've got chemistry on it. That is the best play to get the opponent in foul trouble early and get our offense to start clicking.

    5. Practice throwing the ball up to Dwight on the drive. No bounces passes. No bullet passes. Lob, lob, lob after lob to Dwight. Figure out the timing to get him the ball lobbed at the rim for the throw downs. Get the timing of it and understand when Dwight is positioned for it.

    6. Experiement with Dwight/Capela in the same lineup. Surround them with Brewer and whomever else will scramble and overplay on the perimeter and will run out on the break.

    7. Bring Ty into the game and make him run the top. Pick-and-roll. Surround him with the best perimeter defenders we've got. That means some combination of Ariza/Brewer/Thornton/McDaniels out there with him with one of Dwight/Capela. We might be able to work Harden alongside him if Harden is playing the defensive 4 and we can have Harden weakside where the defender has to stay on him or get torched.

    8. Do the same thing to other teams that they do to us when we have Terrence in there. Find their weak link offensive player and funnel the ball to him, then fade off him and stack up on the offensive threats and force that player to beat you. For instance, the obvious player we should have faded away from against Memphis was Tony Allen. Make him hold the basketball and figure out what to do with it while rotating double defenders onto Conley and Gasol.
     
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Are you talking about 4 out 1? That doesn't rely on a drive and kick. It is designed to force the defense to cover the 1 man-on-man. It is a classic way college ball can spread the court and open the lane for the single big man to get space.

    You're right that it can also provide the dribbler with a pick to drive. But that's not it's only option, as you seem to say.

    As an example, look at the last MEM game around the 1:50 mark of the 3rd. We show the 4 out 1 often when Capela is in the game. He came out to give Thornton a high-pick leaving the lane wide open. Capela shows for a pick, defense moves to trap Thornton, so Capela quickly dives to the rim, and Thornton finds him for an open slam.

    The 4 out 1 clears the lane for several other things than a drive and kick. My example is not the only one. I would actually say the inverse formation, 4 flat 1, is what gets limited to an ISO with drive and kick option. But that servers another purpose.

    Look for the 4 out 1 when Capela is in.
     
    #28 heypartner, Nov 26, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  9. davidxhz

    davidxhz Member

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    i will add one more here, don't think coaching change would help this team right now, no tibs or whatever, our coach has already been fired, it's all on the players now, i mean ALLL:mad:
     
  10. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    But... but... blame Dwight!!!

    Like the thread. Would have contributed if it was winter break :) will subscribe.
     
  11. basketballholic

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    Here's the lineup results from tonight's Knicks game:

    Dwight and Clint with 3 smalls +8

    Jones/Dwight or Jones/Capela -16

    Capela and 4 Smalls +10

    Dwight and 4 Smalls +3


    Hopefully......hopefully......hopefully tonight's game was finally enough evidence to convince JBB we gotta play small or go double big with Dwight and Clint together...from now on until DMo gets back.


    Next thing hopefully JBB finally figures out that Harden can't defend 1's and 2's. Afflalo just drilled Harden tonight over and over. Gotta wake up and smell the coffee here. Harden should've been defending the 4.
     
  12. basketballholic

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    And here's tonight big man combination results:

    Dwight/Capela -2

    Capela/Terrence -14

    Dwight/Terrence -4


    Dwight/Harrell +4

    Capela/Harrell +2

    Dwight/Smalls +14

    Capela/Smalls -5 (Harden on bench)

    Harrell/Smalls -2 (hack-a-andre)

    no bigs at end -4


    Terrence with another -18 in first half before JBB pulled him for Harrell in the second half.
     
  13. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the thread. I find it very interesting.

    Since it's been a few games (some I've missed), would it be possible to update the thread with whether the coach has implemented any of the thread's suggestions?

    Also, you mention Harden can't guard 1's and 2's and then automatically pencil him in at the 4. Why not just keep him on 3's for the most part? I would think he could guard the Joe Johnsons, etc. Durant would light him up of course, but he could guard their 2.

    You suggested Morey should do some trades. The way I see it, we have nothing of value to trade. Do you see any possibilities?
     
  14. Rockets025

    Rockets025 Rookie

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    We should have had Ty start every game this season. The didn't get a lot of time to practice in the pre season.

    Ty has the potential to take us over the top, if I was a coach I would say:
    1) Ty is starting no matter what to force the integration(with our record I mean with our record now starting ty couldn't have hurt)
    2) tell harden anytime I see Him take it up he would be benched

    We went from Bev to a pg avg. 10ast a game, I predicted before the season it wouldn't be until Christmas before the team adjusted to have 2 playmakers on the floor, but we got scared with our losing record and benched him to the point where he gets NPT.

    I think anytime a team adds a star player there is a couple months learning curve, for example didn't the heat have a rough start when trying to adjust to lebron coming in, didn't the cavs have a terrible first half of the season when love and lebron signed. We just got to scared to wait out the growing pains and now our coaching staff don't know wtf to do
     
  15. basketballholic

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    I suggested Dwight/Clint together. JBB started doing that 2 games ago. I'm sure it wasn't because I suggested it. But Capela is starting now. Wished they'd play that lineup more minutes.

    I also suggested when we aren't playing Dwight/Clint together that we've got to go small the rest of the time. We have to reduce Terrence's rooks to 3rd string center only to have ant chance of winning consistently.


    Harden can't even handle a lot of 3's defensively, sad to say. However whichever matchup works best is the one you go for, whether it's the 3 or 4.

    Trade possibilities?
    The longer this debacle goes on the worse our players look and the lower their trade values become. We might have to put Ariza up on the trade block to generate some kind of value.
     
    #35 basketballholic, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  16. arabrocket

    arabrocket Member

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    i think the majorities of us agree on bbhaulic this time :). good thread non the less. sending reps you're way.
     
  17. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Nothing works.
    Not the GM.
    Not the coach.
    Not the "system".
    Not the players.
    Not the shooting.
    Not the defense.
    Not a %*# damn thing works around here. :mad:
     
  18. jefferytop

    jefferytop Member

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    lol, this is classic
     
  19. basketballholic

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    I pretty much agree. If we're going to trade for a pg and he take up over $12 million of cap space he'd better be starting and doing his thing. For Lawson that means initiating the offense. You give him the basketball and tell him to orchestrate. Harden has to accept that while they are on the floor together.

    Then you have Harden run the first shift with the bench brigade and let him run down hill on the opponent backup unit.

    Everybody's down on Lawson but it's not on Lawson. We knew he was a poor defender before we traded for him. We also knew he was a very mediocre 3-point shooter. We didn't trade for him so he could play defense and catch-and-shoot 3's for us. We didn't sign Terry to play defense either. We traded for Lawson to help Harden and this team have an easier time offensively by having another distinctive ball-handler/playmaker that can run the show and conserve Hardens energy for crunch time.

    You simply can't keep running the man out there as an off-the-ball floor-spreader when that's not his forte and is not why we brought him here. That's coaching stupidity. Give the man the ball to start the game, run pick-and-roll with Howard and get both of those guys going.

    Since it's obvious that the double big Howard/Capela lineup is a good lineup for us why should we not run Lawson back out there to start games? With Trevor, Dwight, and Capela you've got a very good defensive front court. When Harden and Lawson get blown by there is going to be plenty of help at the rim, especially with James taking the 3 and letting Ariza work at the top defensively.

    If we're not going to let Lawson handle, create for others, and get his at the rim and in the paint then he shouldn't be here. We brought him here to handle and dish, not to stand at the arc and launch 3's and play lock down D.
     
  20. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

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    This. What better way to incorporate a struggling player into your offense and see instant rewards. When they start doing this success will follow. Book it.
     

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