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They have no semblance of a point guard

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Mar 5, 2003.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    last year's NBA final four

    LA: Kobe and Fisher
    Kings: Christie and Bibby
    Celtics: Anderson and Pierce
    Jersey: Kittles and Kidd

    the year before

    Philly: Iverson and Snow
    LA: Kobe and Fisher
    Bucks: Cassell and Allen
    S.A. : Porter and Derek Anderson
     
  2. Live

    Live Member

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    Point taken, pgabriel.
     
  3. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    I would rather have a bad defender at the shooting guard position than the point. Poor defense at the point allows the opposing point guard to score as well as create plays for all of his teammates. Whereas a shooting guard will usually only look for his shot. We're better off having a 2-guard try to beat the team by themselves, then a point guard racking up a ton of points AND a ton of assists getting his teammates involved.

    Besides, the times that I've seen a taller guard post up on Francis he's done pretty good job with his post up defense. On the other hand, his defense against quick point guards has been atrocious. They've been causing havoc against the Rocket defense all season.

    Of course, I would rather great defense at both positions, but with Steve on the floor, that isn’t likely.
     
  4. Juugie

    Juugie Member

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    You could put John Stockton or Magic Johnson in this offense and they would never average 10 assists.

    Just look and see how many screens and picks Dallas sends their shooters through before Nash delivers a pass. They are wide open.

    Dallas' offense never relies on guys standing at the three point line while Nash beats his man off the dribble then passes back out.

    They never just run a simple pick and roll. There is always some movement on the weak side.

    If the Rockets simply ran Rice around a double screen five times every game, Steve would average three more assist a game.

    As it is, when Steve first came here, everone told him he didn't shoot ENOUGH. Rudy several times said that Steve needed to be more selfish.

    So Rudy built an offense around Steve and Cuttino ISO's. Honestly, that was the only way that team could win. Rudy has NEVER run an offense that a traditional point guard could thrive in.

    What good is it to have Jason Kidd when you have him just dribble the ball up and throw it down to Yao. Or try to drive and pass out to shooters that can't shoot?

    Even look at Phoenix and how they use Marbury. The Rox have the most predictable and plain offense in the league.
     
  5. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Are Posey, Griffin, etc. suddenly going to start making shots with Nash on their team?

    Here are some 'championship' point guards for you:

    Kenny Smith
    Ron Harper
    BJ Armstrong
    John Paxson

    Funny how Nash didn't become good until Dirk got good, isn't it?
     
  6. Live

    Live Member

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    What if having Nash on the team meant more opportunity baskets for Posey and Griffin, more PnRs and flashes to rim for layups?

    And since we're on Posey and Griffin, who need to elevate their games, I've been wanting to ask for a while now:

    Since when has the efficiency or inefficiency of the offense been directly related to the production of the 4th and 5th options? On any other team, the blame would fall directly on the superstar.

    I mean, if the Lakers are struggling offensively, Walker's to blame?
     
  7. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    If John Stockton were our PG, Yao would be averaging 25 ppg just by milking the PnR mismatches.
     
  8. alex_huynh

    alex_huynh Member

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    For now, I believe it's a combination of a lethargic and predictable offense (for whatever reason, maybe b/c of personnel) and Steve shortcoming as a PG. We can all sit here and speculate, comtemplate, meditate or ruminate, but what I think most of us want to see is change. Next season, we either run a cool offense like the Kings or Mavs to prove if Francis can play PG or get someone that can play PG.

    Oh please, I hope we make some drastic changes this offseason b/c this offense is so boring and predictable.
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    yeah, it would probably be closer to like 12 or 15. those are two guys who know how to controll the ball and distribute to their teammates.
     
  10. wiredog

    wiredog Member

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    I got a simple solution. Get one of the Comets' guard to play point. She is Les Alexander's employee, so slap a Rockets uniform on her and bench Mobley.
     
  11. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    Hmm, kinda hard to get assists when none of your damn teammates can shoot.

    The Mavs are full of shooters. Tinsley has Reggie Miller. It's hard to get assists with that guy...I mean, it's not like he's great at coming off a pick, catching and bombing away. The Spurs have decent shooters as well and Duncan (or shall I say they run good plays for Duncan).

    Bottom line...I would not trade Francis for any of them.
     
  12. iOrange

    iOrange Member

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    Bringing in a good PG won't help too much. Team ball is played by 5 players. Imagine this lineup:

    Nash
    Dirk
    Finley
    Reaf
    and.... Kobe

    What would happen? .....The ball is moved around pretty well...Nash to Dirk, ball fake...to Finley, Finley drives in, kicks out to Kobe. Nash's defender tries to cover Kobe, Nash is open!!! Kobe didn't pass, kobe hesitate, kobe forces a shot!! oh My god!

    you got the idea? We need a smart team, not just a PG. Who's going to teach the whole team? Your coach is the first choice!
     
  13. Live

    Live Member

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    Who can't shoot? Yao? Mobley? Mo? Rice?

    Everyone on this board knows about Griffin and Posey's struggles.

    But then again, the assists don't exactly start piling up when those 2 take a seat do they? The offense doesn't magically start to click when those 2 are substituted for.

    Being a PG isn't just about how many assists you have: how does the offense & defense runs with you at the helm, how the fastbreak executes, turnovers, etc.
     
  14. carayip

    carayip Member

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    This is an excuse. A Jason Kidd, John Stockon or Steve Nash doesn't need great shooters to get assists because they create plenty of open layups/dunks/jumpers for their teammates and it doesn't take great shooters to make open layups/dunks/jumpers.
     
  15. Juugie

    Juugie Member

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    All of those teams run offenses with motion. It's hard to give a guy an open layup/dunk when he's at the 3 point line. Alos, there are plenty of open jumpers but no one is hitting them.

    By the way Steve Nash only averages one assist more a game than Steve despite this flood of open layups/dunks/jumpers that he gets for his team every night.
     
  16. GATER

    GATER Member

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    If the sole effectiveness of any offense can only get a player a 3pt shot late in the clock, it is either a poor offense or a poorly run offense.

    IMHO, the difference between SF and Kidd and Stockton and Nash has little to do with motion offense. It has to do with many other factors which include but are not limited to:

    1) The abilty to coordinate and make good decisions during a fast break.

    2) Being able to dribble and look beyond your defender into the defense to see the defensive coverages.

    3) The ability to run an effective PnR.

    4) Good decisions in passing out of double teams instead of always trying to split the double with your athleticism.

    Someone tried to defend Steve in another thread that when he's doubled it's hard for him to see over the double (to an open teammate specifiaclly Yao) because he's only 6'3". I don't see more than an inch difference among SF, JK, JS or SN.

    Lastly, but possibly most importantly -

    5) Giving up the ball early in the clock and getting it to teammates where they can be most effective and getting them touches so they get the feel of the ball and mentally get into the game.


    Much has been discussed of whether or not the Rockets have shooters. I have for a long time had the opinion that they do but Francis's dominating the ball (multiple x-overs, dribbling, slowness to get a play started, etc.) inhibits his teammates shooting rhythm.

    I found the Toronto game to be a game where the Rockets had a mindset to run and where the offense got started early (read Steve didn't try to dominate or force the game). IMO, it's not a coincidence that the alleged "poor shooting" Rockets (exclusive of SF & CM) were 29-55 for 52.7%.

    To say that because ..."Steve Nash only averages one assist more a game than Steve despite this flood of open layups/dunks/jumpers that he gets for his team every night" totally ignores the fact that Nash makes everyone around him better by sharing the ball.

    There's a reason why Raja Bell, Adrian Griffin, Popeye Jones and Evan Eschmeyer have better shooting %ages than 75% of the Rockets rotation. And it isn't because they are great shooters.

    There's a reason Raef LaFrentz shoots 53.3% from the field in spite of being a perimeter oriented player shooting 39% from the arc. There's a reason Walt Williams is still putting up decent numbers. The Mavs share the ball...they get touches...and it all starts with Nash.
     
    #36 GATER, Mar 7, 2003
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2003
  17. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    We need a Point Guard like Kenny Smith, who was able to get the ball up the floor quickly, distribute the ball quickly,and make spectacular three point shots. Of course we were playing the inside outside game!
     

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