These are the stories the President needs to tell.

I do not think our current system is perfect and I support health care reform. You just aren't following along.

But yes, it is an exaggeration or a lie.

You find me an insurance application that requires you to even provide the address of your grandmother. Colds when you were 5? LOL

Employer sponsored plans generally look back 5 years (or less) and the major ones don't ask about things like a cold. If you lie on an employer sponsored plan's application, in the state of Texas, it doesn't matter. You can't be denied coverage and you can't have your coverage rescinded. They can retroactively increase your rates however if you lied about something material (such as, I don't know, diabetes!)

Individual plans work differently, but again, the apps don't ask about stupid things like the ones you are referencing.

Edit: I'm glad you are done though. The debate about healthcare will be more productive when the people who are stuck on absolutes and exaggerations on both side fall out.

 

Insurance companies exist because doctors and hospitals charge more than the average person can afford. Without them there to bridge the gap in funding, most people wouldn't be able to afford healthcare, and despite what people seem to think, doctors would be fine.

I don't see many doctors offering to reduce their rates for surgeries, office visits, etc. Everybody just points at the insurance companies. So, in protest, everyone should drop their insurance and pay for their medical treatment themselves. Be on the side of angels!

 

Except there are tens of millions of such stories.


It would be very enlightening for country club Republicans like yourself to hear some of these stories.


.

 

You don't think it's perfect ... but you're perfectly willing to let the "free market" remain in control of the system even though the "free market" is responsible for the ****hole our healthcare system wallows in now.

And you're correct, grandma's address/cold at 5 are not specific, but they're illustrative of the minor and unimportant reasons that insurance companies use to deny claims - you seem to be missing the point that insurance companies will deny a claim via any means at their disposal if they stand to lose profit from fulfilling the claim. It's not about right and wrong, it's about the bottom line. And shareholders doing well must be comforting to the people listed in the stories in this thread. I'm sure they're perfectly willing to sacrifice their health so some Wall Street ***** can turn a profit.

It's nice that you latched onto something small and inconsequential in my post and used it to dismiss everything else I said in it. Good tactic, works well when arguing on internet forums.

And the reason these stories are all anecdotal is because the only place all this information exists in one location is in the records of the insurance companies and they're sure as hell not gonna release that stuff. We can have tens, hundreds of thousands of individuals who do not know each other who have similar stories of being denied by their insurance company and suffering ill effects, even death, as a result - but we only get these stories one at a time from individuals in news reports because the only people who truly know how pervasive this behavior is are the insurance companies, and they ain't tellin'.

And I do have an absolute here - I believe wholeheartedly that when we use a profit-driven model as the basis for our healthcare, that people will suffer and sometimes die if healing them will be non-profitable for the companies that make these decisions. If you would like evidence to back this up, please see our current healthcare system. The "free market" is the reason we have the problems we have now. Insurance companies aren't in business to alleviate the suffering caused by evil doctors who charge too much, they're in the business to make as much money as they possibly can by any means at their disposal that won't lead to a lawsuit costly enough to impact their bottom line.

So, full disclosure: I suspect one of your absolutes is that this is a problem that will be solved by 'the free market.' That idea involves multiple absolutes, but there's no point in listing them. Also: do you work for the insurance industry, or have heavy investments in the industry? Or are you just a diehard free-marketeer?

 

Tens of millions? Link? Or are you using the number of uninsured as your source for "tens of millions"?

 

Well let's see, I've advocated for a public option of sorts in this very thread, have advocated for reform and new legislation. So no, I'm not what you think, but you're stuck in your hyperbole and exaggeration so you miss it.

Give me an example of a trivial thing that gets you coverage declined...

Also, the idea that insurance companies try to deny all claims is crazy and a flat out lie. Most claims are paid. People with aids, cancer, diabetes, etc. get their claims paid. There are examples of people who don't but they are not the norm.

 

Northside I think Obama is ahead of ya!

Obama Rethinking Health Care Pitch

More emotional appeal may surface as Obama's backers criticize him for focusing on regulatory details instead of lofty themes.

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama, trying to regain control of the health-care debate, will likely shift his pitch in September, White House and Democratic officials said, as he faces pressure from supporters to talk more about the moral imperative to provide health insurance to all Americans.

The rethinking comes amid a struggle by the White House to clarify its view on a public insurance plan, which liberals see as a critical part of a health overhaul. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Sunday that a public plan isn't the "essential element" of a health bill, prompting sharp words from liberal groups.

 

Yes, your "public option of sorts" advocates for one preventative care visit per year for people without insurance. Fantastic! I imagine your rationale is "it's better than nothing" - and it is, but it's not enough. It should be noted that nowhere in this discussion are we mentioning the millions of uninsured people in this country - that's where the real problem lies. This issue we're discussing here doesn't even touch on the huge number of people who can't afford health insurance at all.

I noticed that you neglected to mention whether you had investments in health insurance companies or whether you work for one.

And maybe you're not what I think you are - please explain, with supporting facts where necessary, why you're against a genuine public option for health care.

You could always read the examples in the first post of this thread, if you'd like some anecdotal evidence (which, as I mentioned above, is likely the only information we'll get).

Here's a good article from Dr. Bernadine Healy

It should be noted that it isn't just the denial of claims that is causing people to suffer and die - it's also the delaying of claims.

And for a larger perspective, Wendell Potter a former health insurance executive testifying before congress:

I'd encourage you to read the entire article.

There are reasons not covered here - a visit to a psychologist in the past can be used to deny any health insurance claim, for example. Unfortunately, these things are hard to dig up ... these insurance companies aren't going to let us in on the code for their expensive claim-denial software that allows them to go through all their claims and pick out the unprofitable ones that they can get away with denying.

I'd like to point out again that what we're discussing here isn't the crux of the issue - the aspect we're not talking about is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect, and that is the tens of millions of Americans who are either uninsured or underinsured.

I have never said that insurance companies try and deny all claims - I said they try to deny those claims they feel they can get away with without risking a costly lawsuit.

Can you explain to me why we should allow the insurance companies to retain so much power over our health and well-being when they have clearly demonstrated their inability to behave ethically in the face of losing profits?

What is your argument in favor of allowing health insurance companies to continue doing business as usual?

 

I thought the thadeus was just about sex.

EDIT: nevermind. It's obvious he needs a healthy populace, with health insurance, to sex.

 

I work at a state university and when you say that to people the first thing they think of is at least you have great benefits. That is no longer the case. While I, personally have OK health insurance, I still pay a fairly high co-pay for doctor's visits, emergencies must be pre-approved (how the F does that work?!), dental coverage is extra and really only covers cleanings, every thing else is very expensive, and there is no vision coverage.
My wife's coverage I have to pay half the cost of and it is a couple hundred dollars every month.

They have been steadily getting worse and worse deals from the insurance companies every couple of years when we renew. The cost goes up and the benefits go down. For example, a maintenance drug that my wife has to take for her ulcerative colitis for the rest of her life was just changed from one class to another, tripling the cost. When my wife ended up in the hospital a few years ago, our portion for her two week stay was over $10,000. There was no way we could afford it and we had to get help from family.

Granted, it is better than no insurance, but is not as good as it could be and it is getting to the point where the trade off I used to have for a state job (lower salary in exchange for great benefits) is simply not the case anymore.

When times get tough and the cost of dental care, medication, glasses, etc start to go up or someone gets hospitalized I can easily see how we could go bankrupt from medical bills.

I am paying for coverage. I am not poor. Yet a medical emergency could put us on the streets. It is wrong and we can better as a country.

 

I think this is a great idea. It's time to fight the lies from the right with some real life examples of the tragedies caused by the current health care system.

I've been saying for a while that educated, reasonable people just don't understand that a large portion of the population in this country only respond to sensationalism and rhetoric. Case in point, creationism being pushed into public school science classes and actually being supported by many voters.

Unfortunately, the facts don't speak for themselves in this country. They have to hyped and force fed to the public these days.

 

On Faith Call, Obama Seeks to Refute 'Ludicrous' Claims About Health Reform

By Anne E. Kornblut

Saying some people have been "bearing false witness" in the debate over health care, President Obama told a conference call of religious leaders on Wednesday evening that overhauling the current system is a moral imperative.

Obama once again sought to refute the idea that his proposal contained anything resembling a "death panel," calling the notion "ludicrous" and an "extraordinary lie." He said other accusations -- such as that the government would fund abortions or grant benefits to illegal aliens -- were "fabrications that have been put out there."

In a statement lasting about 10 minutes, the president described the health care proposals as part of his broader effort to create a more just society. The call was webcast by the group Faith in Public Life on its site, www.faithforhealth.org.

"It is absolutely critical that we make sure we're on the side of promoting the well-being of all Americans," Obama said. "I hope that you will all help us move this process forward in the months to come."

Earlier Wednesday, Obama also participated in a call with Jewish leaders, organized by the Religious Action Center for Reform Judaism, on the same subject -- another attempt to enlist religious faithful in the health care push. According to the White House, his message was: "One thing common to all Jews is Tikkun Olam -- the commitment to making the world around us a better place -- and today no issue is more central to that work than making our health care system work better for all Americans."

 

Yep. And of the 40 million odd who are uninsured at any moment is a revolving door. Quibble if you want.

 

What these stories say is that for all of the cries about rationing and death panels that is already happening right now at the hands of health insurers.

 

Edited for clarity

Another anecdote from Suburban Guerrilla-
http://susiemadrak.com/2009/08/16/12/35/letter-from-a-friend/


Late this afternoon I was gobsmacked by a Facebook announcement that a high school friend had died. I tracked down the story, and it is an absolute textbook example of everything that’s wrong with our health care system - so knowing that we share a passion for this topic, I’ll share it with you.

She was 49 years old and in good health, other than a propensity to develop bronchitis. A couple of weeks ago, after a trip to Disneyland, she came down with a terrible flu. After running a high fever for four days she knew she should see a doctor, but she didn’t - no insurance. Her husband, who owns his own business, had cancer a year and a half ago and is not insurable on his own. She originally had insurance through her job, but had been placed on disability after developing carpal tunnel syndrome (she was a transcriber). Eventually she was no longer eligible for insurance through her employer, other than COBRA, which she could in no way afford - her husband’s business had been hard hit in the recession.

So. She waits six days before finally dragging herself to an urgent care clinic, but the wait is so long and she feels like **** on a stick so she goes back home. Eventually ends up in ICU with pneumonia, and, as it ends up, tested positive for H1N1. By then the infection had gone too far, her organs started failing, and after a week in the hospital she died this morning, leaving a teenage daughter and a husband who don’t know what hit them. As though grieving isn’t enough of a burden, imagine the hospital bills they’re going to face. This man is certain to lose his business, his home, and anything else he ever had - on top of losing his wife.

It’s heartbreaking, completely unnecessary, and absolutely infuriating.

http://susiemadrak.com/2009/08/16/12/35/letter-from-a-friend/

 

gifford, very sorry for (edit) my idiocy. ... for the purposes of this thread, I will point out how ridiculously expensive and ineffective the system was in this case, which is not uncommon.

No insurance to pay a $100 visit, so instead the system absorbs a $30,000 (which your friend's husband cannot pay, we assume) ICU cost; it's especially stupid because the $100 visit would probably have saved her life, early on, and the $30k ICU visit, which has to get passed along to everyone else paying for healthcare, didn't save her.

It's like my insurance would cover very expensive back surgery but I had to pay a good physical therapist out of pocket to save my back health. Stupid stupid stupid.

Again, sorry to (edit) prove that I can't read.

 

B-Bob,

Sorry for the confusion. This wasn't a friend of mine. See the link at the bottom of the post.

 

sorry for your friend giff

 

It's just disingenuous to write that there are tens of millions of stories similar to the ones posted, because there aren't.

 

Another story the president needs to be telling...

New Survey/USA poll: 77% Support Public Option