There is not a trade out there worth the #1 pick...

Possum · May 24, 2002

I would be willing to bet Les will not let CD trade the #1. Unless we get a player / players capable of winning us a championship in the next couple years. The reason? Money, notoriety and did I mention money? Imagine how much money Les will make on Ming jerseys just in China. Whether we like it or not the NBA is a business and there is only 2 things on an owners mind. Win a championship and/or make money. I can see Les telling CD, If you trade him you better bring me a championship real soon.

aelliott · May 24, 2002

<i>#1
KT
Collier
Mobley

Toronto trades:

Carter
Keon Clark
future 1st round
</i>

The money isn't even close to working here.

Even if this first deal were possible, how does this help Minnesota free up cap space? The only expiring contract that I see the TWolves getting is Clark and his contract is small. If they were going to count on having Clark in the middle (as you say), then they'd have to resign him and end up taking on more salary than with Garnett. They still end up mediocre and capped out.

Possum · May 24, 2002

DC KID

Then if the Rockets did draft Jay Williams without a trade being agreed upon, they could possibly be stuck with him.

I doubt we would be stuck with him. He probably has as much trade value as Ming. But your right if we try to get cute and draft JW Chicago could trade their pick to some one else. We better be sure we can live without Ming before we try something like that.

leebigez · May 24, 2002

Originally posted by DCkid
A lot of you keep saying "Don't Draft Ming," but fail to come up with a worthy trade for the #1 pick. The trades proposed are either impossible monetarily (Garnett), unrealistic (#4 and Gasol), or most often, simply not enough for the #1 pick. In my opinion, there are three possible scenarios where I would consider making a trade a.) we can get a veteran who could start at center, and a top 5 draft pick to fill the SF position. b.) we get two stars (guys that would start on nearly every team in the NBA) to fill the positions at small forward and center. c.) we get one superstar/franchise player.

I really don't see us getting any franchise/superstar player. KG is the only one that's really been mentioned. Talent wise, just tell me where to sign. But with all the money issues, I just don't see how getting KG would work out. I don't think any other team would even consider giving up their franchise player for the #1 pick.

But, a lot of these players being talked about in possible trades just don't interest me . Here's some players mentioned that I don't want no matter what the entire, packaged trade is:

Camby - The most injury-prone player in the NBA, with the exception of Grant Hill. Maybe I would trade the 15th pick for him. No thanks.

Sprewell - I think he would have a negative effect on team chemistry, and he's an extremely streaky offensive players. Absolutely dreadful field goal percentage. No thanks.

Jamision - He would have to play the three position for us, and he's just simply not what we need there. He doesn't have ballhandling skills (Odom) or a deadly outside shot (Lewis). And he's not THAT great of a defender. He's a 4, not a 3. No thanks.

Olowokandi - Come on guys, this one's easy. Olowokandi quite simply sucks and he's going to be asking for a ton of money. PASS! notice the capital letters

McDyess - Very injury prone and in my opinion, a very overrated player. Averaged over 20 ppg only twice in his 7-year NBA career. Average double-digit rebounds only two seasons in his career. He's only averaged over 2 blocks per game once in his career. Even if he was healthy, I don't think he's worth a #1 pick. Plus, there's no way he can have the same athleticism he used to, which is the best thing he had going for him. Lastly, how many power forwards would that give us now? Pass.

Gasol - What position is he going to play for us? I would pass, but Memphis would too, so it doesn't really matter.

Anyone currently on the bulls - Curry and Chandler haven't even come close to proving they're going to be great NBA players. No thanks.

Draft picks after #5 - Its very possible the two best small forwards in the draft will be gone by the fifth pick. That would leave the Rockets with their third choice of small forward. In my opinion, that's not good enough for a #1 pick. So, there are only four teams I would consider trading with if a draft pick was inlcuded as a major part of the deal: Chicago, Golden State, Memphis, and Denver.

And now, two players, that I would like if the teams could put together a good package...but they can't.

Odom - While he's a good player and I like his talent, he is nowhere near worth a #1 pick in the draft. Plus, he's proven he doesn't care about his team or about winning. I would be more willing to make this trade if the Clippers had a top 5 draft pick to go along with Odom, but the best we could get is number 8. I think that's too low. And I've already stated that the Rockets should stay as far away from Olowokandi as possible. No thanks.

Lewis - I'm a huge Rashard Lewis fan. I think he'd fit in good with the Rockets. But worth a #1 pick, he is not. And Seattle has no high draft picks to go along with him. Pass.

Basically, I don't think the Rockets should trade the #1 pick. But there has been ONE trade proposal that I did like. The Rockets have to include some filler. The trade that very much interests me is Finley and LaFrentz for the #1 pick. I'm not saying I would definitely do it, but it would be something to consider. You would be getting two all-star, or near all-star caliber players to fill both the positions you need the most help with. I would probably end up doing this trade...unfortunately Cuban won't.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you said, but Finley makes 14mil and if you didn't watch the playoffs, Lagrentz kinda sux. Lafrentz can work back side defense, but Divac abused him in the post or he just stayed in foul trouble. I agree about the crazy scenerios. Kandi is driven by a contract yr before he goes back to being terrible.

steddinotayto · May 24, 2002

Originally posted by aelliott
<i>#1
KT
Collier
Mobley

Toronto trades:

Carter
Keon Clark
future 1st round
</i>

The money isn't even close to working here.

Even if this first deal were possible, how does this help Minnesota free up cap space? The only expiring contract that I see the TWolves getting is Clark and his contract is small. If they were going to count on having Clark in the middle (as you say), then they'd have to resign him and end up taking on more salary than with Garnett. They still end up mediocre and capped out.
Click to expand...

well that's what i said in my post...the financial will have to shift around a bit. the thing is that i tried to make it fair for ALL teams involved. but i guess i didn't fully think bout it. if i had your salary intelligence or any other senior members, i would try to knock out a more workable trade hehehe. but wouldn't you agree that this trade looked better than some of the other ones that says somethin like

rockets get:
garnett

minnesota gets:

#1
#15
KT
Mo Taylor
Rice

i highly doubt that even w/ the #1, the wolves would be any where better than what i had proposed.

Sane · May 24, 2002

Although I agree with most of your post DCKid, it's 90% opinion. You very well might think Odom doesn't care, but Rudy and CD like him very much, and wouldn't if what your'e saying was a problem.

Again, I agree with most of it. But still, it's opinion. Like, Kandi sucks? Ask Clipper fans. Have you watched his improvement? How good he's become in the post? Rebounding? He doesn't back down from Shaq, ever. See, this is where opinions differ. I'd rather have Kandi for 8M-9M, than Cato for 7M.

VesceySux · May 24, 2002

Originally posted by Possum
I would be willing to bet Les will not let CD trade the #1. Unless we get a player / players capable of winning us a championship in the next couple years. The reason? Money, notoriety and did I mention money? Imagine how much money Les will make on Ming jerseys just in China. Whether we like it or not the NBA is a business and there is only 2 things on an owners mind. Win a championship and/or make money. I can see Les telling CD, If you trade him you better bring me a championship real soon.
Click to expand...

Ding, ding. We have a winner.

We can talk all we want about chemistry, talent, trades, egos, and championships, but there's one simple fact we seem to be neglecting: Les Alexander is a businessman. He's not Mark Cuban, who simply seems to love the game (or at least loves trying to buy a championship). Les is out to make money and will continue to make decisions based on profit (and make no mistake, he's the boss). Granted, championships (and the talent to garner those championships) do essentially equal money, but Yao Ming presents a very unique case. We're no longer talking about just talent and chemistry anymore. Now we've moved on to the wonderful world of "X-factors." So, what does Yao Ming bring to the table? What could the Rockets expect with Ming on the roster?

1) New source of merchandise revenue (oh, about a billion Rockets jerseys worth)
2) New fan base for ticket sales (would Asians buy more tickets? Maybe...)
3) A ridiculous amount of nationally televised games (NBA on NBC conspiracy? Not anymore...)
4) Crushing media presence at every game (for good or bad, it's still press for the Rockets)

And this is without factoring in Ming's unquestionable talent or the Rockets' glaring hole at the 5 spot. Do you think Les is going to turn all of that down? Do you think Odom or Lewis or Garnett (well, maybe) or Curry or JWill or etc. will bring this kind of hoopla and press our way? Not a chance. I completely agree with DCKid on this one: There is NO acceptable trade for the #1 pick.

Take Yao Ming, sit back, and enjoy the ride.

(I, for one, would relish the opportunity to watch the Rockets again and again on NBC...)

Possum · May 24, 2002

Originally posted by Sane
Although I agree with most of your post DCKid, it's 90% opinion. You very well might think Odom doesn't care, but Rudy and CD like him very much, and wouldn't if what your'e saying was a problem.

Again, I agree with most of it. But still, it's opinion. Like, Kandi sucks? Ask Clipper fans. Have you watched his improvement? How good he's become in the post? Rebounding? He doesn't back down from Shaq, ever. See, this is where opinions differ. I'd rather have Kandi for 8M-9M, than Cato for 7M.
Click to expand...

Yeh lets pay extra 1 or 2 mill a year for a guy that averages less than 2 rebounds more than Cato while playing 7 minutes more per game. Also lets not forget he scored a whoping 4.5 points more per game than Cato. I cant figure out the fascination people have for this guy. This year (his contract year) was the best of his pro career. He only avg 11.2 pts 8.9 reb and 1.8 blocks on a team on a team that only won 39 games. I wouldnt give him 8M-9M a year. Hes an avg center at best.

DCkid · May 24, 2002

Sane, I didn't mean to be stating all that like it was a fact.

My take on Odom. His first mistake, was just that. It was a mistake...you learn from it. Right? Not Lamar. At some point he was faced with the decision, "what's more important 'puffing the magic dragon' or being available all season long to his team." We all know what he chose. If that's not caring, then I don't know what is. Maybe he'll change his attitude in a different evnironment, but after two times I'd be very skeptical.

As far as Olowokandi. His increased points and rebounds are mainly do to increased playing time and increased field goal attempts (gee, I wonder why he was shooting more). You can look at his field goal percentage for proof that his offensive game is still very pathetic. I would be more open if this was his first or second season, but he's now been in the NBA for four full years, and that's without ANY injury setbacks. His field goal percentage has been at 43% his entire career. Not 42%...not 44%...43%. Talk about somebody who's not going anywhere. I don't really see how you can say he has improved, unless you're only referring to his number of field goal attempts. That field goal percentage is absolutely horrific for a center...probably among the worst in the league for a big man. Say what you want about Cato, but his field goal percentage is 58%. He definitely knows what he can and cannot do, apparenlty Olowokandi doesn't. His rebounding and defensive numbers really aren't that much different than Cato's if they played the same amount of minutes. I'm not going to deny that Olowokandi does have at least some offensive game when compared to Cato. But as far as production goes, the only thing that I see Olowokandi truly being better at is taking more shots and missing more shots. Anything above what Cato is currently getting is too much to pay for Olowokandi. I wouldn't really care if they were both paid the same amout, but I sure as heck wouldn't really want Olowokandi to be much more of a part of our offense than Cato is.

Gascon · May 24, 2002

If I were the Rox, there is very little I would not do to put KG in a Rox uni. He's a freak, and if he's on the table, I'd throw the kitchen sink at Minnesota to get him. Now would be the time to do it.

bsb8532 · May 24, 2002

DCkid,

I agree with a lot of what you said, but we have to remember one thing. The trades on here ARE not the trades that CD and Rudy are pondering. There are probably going to be (if there haven't already been) many different offers for the #1 of which we probably won't have a clue until it gets close to getting done (if it gets done). The names being thrown around on this board are speculation, but who knows what could actually get done.

Ultimately I think we'll keep the #1 if everything goes smoothly with the CBA and Sharks but trading the #1 is still a definite possibility. There's no way for us to know for sure what a team would or would not do, its CD's job to find that out and I'm sure he is and will.

Also, I think that Tsika could wind up being a 3. Nowitzki plays the 3 sometimes right now and he doesn't have the athleticism of Tsika or the ballhandling skills (per scouts). If we scout him and find that he and Griff could fill the forward positions then I think he'll be the steal of the draft. With Butler and Dunleavy you know who you're getting in the draft, but with Tsika there is unlimited potential.

TBar · May 24, 2002

The only trade that interests me is for Elton rand. Even that is not eneough for yao Ming. This is a no brainer-

WE MUST DRAFT MING!!!!

I really support this owner - Les Alexander is a business man -hell yes!!, but he has been good for Houston fans - never afraid to pull off a super trade

DearRock · May 24, 2002

DC, you are right. That is why I loved the status quo, before there was the #1 pick and I am not about to change now. In the history of this league there has never been 5 allstars on one team, so folks should give that up. Plus I see the composition of the current champions and I know what all champions since 1994 have had on their teams, talentwise. It is safe to say that we have a talented team now and greater success will depend on non-talent factors, like Rudy's system, en fin, en fin (and so on).

JoeBarelyCares · May 24, 2002

1) New source of merchandise revenue (oh, about a billion Rockets jerseys worth)

Click to expand...

I'm a Ming supporter, but I am not sure Les will make more money off merchandising. First, doesn't the league share this revenue? Second, I can foresee a billion Ming Rockets' jerseys in China, but with only one of them being officially licensed.

roswell raygun · May 24, 2002

I don't understand the fascination with Lamar Odom.
He is recovering from a serious wrist injury that limited him to 29 games this past season. He is a known drug user who has twice been suspended for violating the league's substance-abuse policy. He's nearing free agency, which means he'll soon be demanding a big-money, long-term contract.. On top of that, his scoring, rebounding and shooting percentages all reached career lows this year.
Also, he seems mentally unstable. Anyone remember when he disappeared for a while after the 1999 draft? Between that, the drug problems, the injury and the decline in his game, I wouldn't want him at all, let alone as the centerpiece in a trade for the No. 1 pick.
Honestly, Ming vs. Odom, who's the bigger gamble?

NYKRule · May 24, 2002

Houston trades:
SF Eddie Griffin
SG Cuttino Mobley
SF Glen Rice
PF Maurice Taylor
C Kelvin Cato
1st overall pick
Houston receives:
SF Kevin Garnett
C Marc Jackson
PF Othella Harrington
Future NY First Rounder

Minnesota trades:
PG Chauncey Billups
SF Kevin Garnett
C Marc Jackson
Minnesota receives:
SF Eddie Griffin
SG Cuttino Mobley
PG Charlie Ward
C Marcus Camby
SF Latrell Sprewell

New York trades:
PF Othella Harrington
PG Charlie Ward
C Marcus Camby
SF Latrell Sprewell
Future 1st rounder
New York receives:
SF Glen Rice
PF Maurice Taylor
C Kelvin Cato
PG Chauncey Billups
1st overall pick

Something that complex would need to happen for the Rockets to get Garnett....while the trade would be pretty even considering expiring contracts plus youth and talent, it would never ever be discussed.

carlit0 · May 24, 2002

To much given up. Remember Garnett is on the terrible team that is going down. And he cost to much for most teams in the NBA.

Mgnt is going to try to worlk a deal first and they are not going to success and eventually Garnett will demand a trade in a positive way, kinda like what Hakeem did with us.

FLAGRANT1 · May 24, 2002

1st pick, Kelvin, and K9 for.......
4th pick and Lorenzen Wright

..................excellent.....................

Rocket River · May 24, 2002

Originally posted by DCkid

However, why would the Bulls do this? If the Rockets know the Bulls want Williams, and are trying to trade them our pick for the #2 pick and let's say Eddie Robinson, and the Bulls know that the Rockets want Yao Ming. Wouldn't the Bulls be better off refusing the trade? They would basically be calling our bluff saying, "you're not going to draft Jay Williams, you want Ming too much." Then if the Rockets did draft Jay Williams without a trade being agreed upon, they could possibly be stuck with him. I think the Bulls would have to be pretty stupid to agree to this trade, but then something kind of similar did happen in 1998. There was the Jamison/Carter trade, where the Raptors and Warriors picked back-to-back just like the Rockets and Bulls this offseason. The Raptors selected Jamison with the 4th pick, eventhough they really wanted Carter. They then got some extra cash out of it by trading Antawn Jamison to the Warriors for Carter and money. How cold was that? Not only did the Warriors trade Carter for Jamison, but they actually paid the Raptors money to agree to this trade. The Warriors were pretty much violated by the Raptors that night. That was criminal! I think I would've killed myself by now if I was a Warriors fan (not really). So, I don't know, with Krause at the helm, maybe there's a slim chance of this happening. But I just can't believe the Bulls would be that stupid to swap picks with the Rockets.
Click to expand...

The Rockets would be total b*stards for doing this
the ideal is. . . the rockets HAVE DEALS they could accept for Jay williams. ..
I'm quite sure if you told the bulls. . . Look.
Gimmie something or Jameson and #3 [dunleavy] will be in houston

and Jay williams will be in Golden state . .
what are they gonna do . . .draft Ming, with Curry and Chandler there?
Pass on Ming and we get him anyway?

The Point is. . . Do this .. . . . . DAY OF THE DRAFT with maybe 3 minutes left on the clock. Tell them they got 2 minutes to propose
a trade where we switch picks

We want: Eddie Robinson or Jalen Rose
and they can have their choice of CATO, COLLIER, LANGHI,RICE,WALT [in sign n trade] MOOCHIE, Oz Torres, or KT[hate to see him go]

mix and match as they like.
We'll draft Jay Williams . .and trade him to you . . right after.

Rocket River

Desert Scar · May 24, 2002

I agree with many here. To put the Clips in play for their choice of Ming or JW they need to bring Brand on the table. Miles or Odom plus #8 & #12 is close, but not enough this year. I'd press for Brand & the #8, or make the Clips involve other players in a 3-way deal where they acquire a #3-4 pick (where we get our #1 guy after Ming/JW) and send it to us along with a high-potential but riskier player/prospect (Odom, Miles). I am not much interested in Kandi--but is just a slight improvement over Cato and is the same age. Kandi as a throw in is cool, not not as any principal.

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