Theory of Evolution finally proven

Also, many people here question the validity of the "stories" of the bible, but there is ALOT of evidence that supports the bible.

There is a large ship on top of a mountain in Turkey that is most likely Noah's ark, but due to their government has not been excavated. Also, in the Black Sea they are excavating an object that they believe might be Noah's Ark.

The Holy Grail. There is a secret order of knights in Scotland, who during the Crusades, were believed to have found the Holy Grail and brought it back to Scotland. It is today believed to be in a very old and historical church there, but leaders of the church refuse to search for it, as it is believed to be buried somewhere secretly there. Many say there is actually more than one holy grail, and that they still exist today.

There is much fact to be found in the bible..

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haven, you've proven to me you know you're stuff about evolution just by the fact you know the word punctuated equilibrium. I thought I was the only one

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If you want to take a look at "punctuated equilibrium" , you might contend that the human species came from the sea and that there was a period of "punctuated equilibrium" in their progession from sea to land. This would explain how isolated groups such as the aborigenees and other peoples of the pacific islands got there. Of course, like I said, it could also have been due to Pangaea

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Tacoma: I don't want to overly discredit the bible. It is useful as an historical document. I'm even vaguely Christian (read: agnostic with occasional lapses into Christianity). I just think that the "origin" theory in the Bible is discredited by other historical records, namely those in Egypt.

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Why is it that everytime BC defeats a major conference opponent, that opponent promptly goes on a losing streak?

PS. Notre Dame sucks

 

Whether you believe in creation or somebody elses theory of evolution is it going to drastically change your life? Beliefs suck because there usually somebody elses experience or philosophy and not your own. So what the theory of evolution was proven. So what Jeusus and Mohammed could walk on water. Get back to the real bull**** of life. Rocket basketball. Awooooo! playoffs baby here we come. I know not what I say.

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I'm not that familiar with the egyption civilization and it's records. What is their in it's records that provides evidence against the "origin" theory in the bible?



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Tacoma: Egyption civilization goes back further than a strict interpretation of Biblical history allows as possible. We covered this in a Biblical Heritage class I took.

Biblican historians (Christian) have calculated how old the Bible allows the world to be by the ages of individual people, etc. Evidently, it's pretty precise as to the Bible and the text. Egyption civ extends beyond this #. Hence, Egyption civ would have existed before Creation occurred.

Rocketbooster: BTW, evolution is a science, creationism is a belief. Big difference. One is based on application of scientific method, the other on a "leap."

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Why is it that everytime BC defeats a major conference opponent, that opponent promptly goes on a losing streak?

PS. Notre Dame sucks

 

BTW, I don't mean to use the Egyption civilization date argument to claim that the Bible is wrong. I believe (for the most part) in a symbolic interpretation of the Bible. I just think it shows that a strict, literal interpretation of the bible is literal. So don't think I'm a raving atheist, Christian-hater (although I do like Nietzsche ).

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Why is it that everytime BC defeats a major conference opponent, that opponent promptly goes on a losing streak?

PS. Notre Dame sucks

 

People believe in gods because our brains are not developed enough to comprehend the meaning of existence. Religion is the easy explanation. Personally, I don't think any brain of any lifeform will ever be developed enough to comprehend existence. I do think that animals have a greater grasp that humans though, I don't know why.

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"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."

 

...And okay your right, I'm wrong. Do you feel any diffrent. Are you still comfortable? What does it matter? Are you discontended enough were you'r ready to leap away from the known - How can a text have any significance to your vitality?

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How can anything be proven if you have not experienced it yourself?


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[This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited February 24, 2001).]

 

Do you realize what you are saying. Is being alive thinking? Is it mere words and prhases that spring us? Do you think to feel? To know? I know we can prove that there is a glob of something in our heads terminized as a brain. X rays will prove that. But I don't understand your conclusion stated above. Creativity. Now, Thats something that cannot be verbalized really, its constant, the begining, theres no end; theres no conclusion to be made. look at a painting, a sunset, a smile. Does it need to be comprehended? I don't know i'm with you here. I'm not trying to adopt philosophys and phrases from the past but questioning myself as i speak.

Are we are visual X-rays? I don't know? Can a crying lady, an exploding star be products of a blob within our head? man, I dont know tonight I'm questioning like never before.

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[This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited February 24, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited February 24, 2001).]

 

Tacoma --

Can you link me to any articles about those excavations or the grail?? -- sounds like interesting stuff.

ZRB --

*Nod*

I agree completely.

Have you read Pinker's How the Mind Works??

Excellent read for any seeking a better grasp on, well, how our minds work.

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Hey now, Hey now, don't Dream it's over...

 

i guess will just really have to find out when we die.

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http://www.democrats.com

 

Why not creationism and evolution both?

Why can't god be responsible for the big bang and also evolution that was a result of this universe's laws established during the big bang?

 

I did NOT say you argued, I only posed a thought. I was saying you have not studied Creationism if you can not answer this question yourself.

Let me explain; I do not believe in Buddah or Hindiumism, but I do understand (one of them) that they do not believe in eating cows because that is what they will become in the afterlife. Just like if I did not believe in God, I would still understand He is undefinatable.

Ok, so I went into more detail. My simple explanation; The 'Days' in the bible do not translate to Earth days. (simple math will tell you that days on bigger plants are longer than ones on smaller plants ... and when did God ever say he was basing everying on plant Earth?) Now I 1 'Day' could span millions of years, therefore, allowing evolution to occur. I only said Man was created and did not evolve from a diffrent species. Why don't you try and read my post and try to understand what im saying instead of automatically arguing with it.

The bible never went into detail of the creation, just that it was created. I believe there were dinosaurs ect ..., so therefore, evolution could have happened. I wasn't there, I don't have a time machine, so I really can not give you a definate answer, nor can you.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (II Peter 3:8)

Now if you want to take this literally word for word, then you can say the '7 Days of creation will take 7 thousand years (7 Days x 1000 years = 7000 thousand years, just in case you don't fully read my thought and need to know where I came up with 7 thousand years) I do not take this literally. I believe this scripture is explaining the indefinate of God (do note that the scripture went both ways, saying 1000 years is 1 day.)
There, i have shown you that the 7 Days did not necessarily mean 7 rotations of planet Earth

I have no solid proof, other than from the bible, which you do not believe in ( Day 6, God created Man) I will say i won't remain naive to say the rest of the animal/plant species might have evolved.

This is why i believe Man is diffrent: First, the sentarian gaurd in the Matrix said it best ... Man is nothing but a cancer to this plant. Man disrupts the process of life. We are so diffrent from any other animal on this plant; as animals are to plants.
We don't see monkeys going around taming horses and riding them, or building weapons, forming nations, and hunting eachother down. They have no technology, other than picking up a rock or a stick off the ground and digging with it. Whooptee, braindead humans can do that too. This is what i mean by superior intelligence. There is not one man so important to the development of technolgy that would have prevented us from learning about something else. Sure, Einstien invented plenty of things, but sooner or later someone would have figured it out.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth" (Gen 1:1)
It didn't say in what order, but it says he created both. Gen 1:14 just explains that light is used to divide the days and nights, seasons, days, years, it didn't say that light was just created. Im not too sure what you are trying to get at here ...

It hasn't happened yet ... i could go all day on "what if's" that would shake my belief(ive heard plenty enough of
"what if trades" in the Rocket Forum)

Observing people is one of my more intrests in life. (this could explain why im so stereotypical) I will admit that Christians people are more blue collar workers, who do not have science in their lives, while evolutions tend to be white collared. Of course, people who have to think more are going to question and be more 'scientific'. Science, you always have to have to have proof, and relying on faith or feelings can not be an answer. So naturally, when a science person reads the bible, he wants PROOF. I am a science person, and I ALWAYS want proof. Its hard sometime to believe in the bible, but i look at the alternatives and look how perfect life is, and just laugh and it builds my faith even more.
My point is, we try too hard to explain everything, sometimes we need to step back and look outside the box instead of inside.


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Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!

 

Space Ghost --

I apologize if I came off abrasive in my response -- its been a long week.

Its late and I'm sleepy but I want to touch on a few things 'fore I nod off:

Your Genesis Explanation --

Thanks for the Paul quote, that clears up quite a bit my initial question about the actual length of Genesis creation.


Stars and Light --

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth" (Gen 1:1)
It didn't say in what order, but it says he created both. Gen 1:14 just explains that light is used to divide the days and nights, seasons, days, years, it didn't say that light was just created. Im not too sure what you are trying to get at here ..."

I wasn't talking about Gen 1:1 but rather Gen 1:3 (quoted above) and Gen 1:14 ("And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" -- the creation of stars).

I was thinking that the beleifs on display in these verse seem in line with the thought process of a man living in this era, oblivious to Astronomical discoveries afforded to us today -- that is to say, had he known then that light came from stars, I think he would have worded it different.

Damn, that didn't come out the way I wanted at all.

Evolution --

You said: "I have no solid proof, other than from the bible, which you do not believe in ( Day 6, God created Man) I will say i won't remain naive to say the rest of the animal/plant species might have evolved.

This is why i believe Man is diffrent: First, the sentarian gaurd in the Matrix said it best ... Man is nothing but a cancer to this plant. Man disrupts the process of life. We are so diffrent from any other animal on this plant; as animals are to plants.
We don't see monkeys going around taming horses and riding them, or building weapons, forming nations, and hunting eachother down. They have no technology, other than picking up a rock or a stick off the ground and digging with it. Whooptee, braindead humans can do that too. This is what i mean by superior intelligence. There is not one man so important to the development of technolgy that would have prevented us from learning about something else. Sure, Einstien invented plenty of things, but sooner or later someone would have figured it out."

We share 98% of our genome with Chimpanzees -- in a biotic sense, we really aren't all that different.

I think its abstract reasoning that sets apart from our animal brethren and accounts for why we seem so drastically different. Its an evolutionary grant thats allowed us to adapt our enviroments, survive, and move beyond all other species. Our minds are fantastic things, for sure, almost otherwordly -- which is probably why we think the possible explanation for it is something supernatural, like a God -- but I think the mind can be fully accounted for by the structure of the brain. Certainly cognitive science has made broad steps in that direction (The Computational Theory of the Mind for example).

Anyways, it seemed as if you were offended by my original post and I don't blame you but I hope that that won't deter you from discussing this further as I'm interested as to what some of your theories on evolution as regards to its coorellation to creationism.



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Hey now, Hey now, don't Dream it's over...

 

I dont mean to be rude, but this is a pretty naive understanding of PRIMATE intelligence. PRIMATES are unusual in the relatively large size of their brains and the comlexity of their behavior. Monkeys and apes have larger brains in relation to their body size than members of any other taxonomic group. Humans carry this evolutionary trend to a greater extreme. Intelligence is extremely difficult to define, but it is commonly understood to include the ability to solve problems in complex situations by flexible means. Primates exhibit these qualities why other taxonomic groups don't. Birds, for example, may be able to recall thousands of locations where it has stored seeds, but this is based on fixed stimuli, not problem solving ability.

There are two subgroups of theories that explain evolution of intelligence in primates; ecological factors and social factors. Both theories use brain size in their theory. There are three main componenets of the brain: the hindbrain, which contains the cerebellum and medulla; the midbrain, which contains the optic lobe; and the forebrain, which contains the cerebrum. The cerebrum is divided into four main lobes: ocipital, parietal, frontal, and temporal. This forebrain is greatly expanded in primates. The neocortex, a component of the cerebral cortex (which is an outside layer of the cerebrum), seems to be the "thinking" part of the brain, the part the brain most closely associates with problem solving and behavioral flexibilty. In primates, the neocortex covers the surface of virtually the entire forebrain.

Primates dont form nations, as you say, but they do form many social groups that are very similar to "nations." They often participate in coalitions and do understand the nature of rank relationships among other individuals and groups (which is basically what we do with nations anyway). Primates even use deception when necessary and chimpanzees are able to manipulate other group members adeptly for strategic purposes, a rudimentary mastery of POLITICAL tactics (read Chimpanzee Politics by Frans de Waal). Finally some primates may also be able to comprehend theory of mind, or understand what other individuals are thinking.

Primates do not build great skyscrapers or cars, but they do use tools extensively and much more intelligently than other mammals. Two or more tools may be utilized in sequence to perform a single task, one tool may be employed to make anotehr tool, tools may be chosen before they are actually needed, they may be modified before they are used, and tools may be manipulated in unique ways to fit special circumstances.

I understand why at first glance you may say humans are so intellectually superior it just doesnt make sense. However, when you look at the evidence (of the brain, of social behavior, of tool use, etc,etc) it becomes much clearer. The degree of intellectual difference between monkeys and, say, turtles, is much greater than that between humans and other primates. Yet, you agree to evolution of all other animals but place humans in a seperate, "special" category.

I agree that I personally dont know too much about the Bible, but it seems as you dont know much at all about evolution, primate intelligence, etc, etc.

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Stone Cold
I admit I was getting a bit agitated, but only because it seemed you were arguing against something you have knowledge on. And in a same sense, im doing it back because i know very little history of evolution.

To me, the bible is a book of contradictions (and many Christians get upset when I say that)It seems everything said, there is something that goes againt that very thought (thou shalt not kill, but it ok's to kill later for certain reasons, like war). It is composed of many anologies, stories, vague thoughts, and many times you have to take it literally, and to me, that is the beauty of it.
Lets take the story of Noah's ark. This happened, lets say roughly 3000bc. He destroy the earth with a flood except two of each creature and Noah's family. There are two thoughts to this:
1) There are now 6 billion(?) people on earth. That means we all came from Noah and Adam and Eve. Bible teaches against incest.
2) He destroyed ALL creatures. How did man and animals end up on the the Americas and Australia?

Here is one example of a faith shaker for Christians, that can not really be defined word for word in the Bible.(at least to me)

Now my though on evolution (including JayZ750 comments.
I agree to a point that all creatures except man could have evolved. So we are all different by 2% on a strand of DNA. But isn't everything composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons? By compiling in diffrent forms billions and billions and billions of times, we get diffrent outcomes. Some of them come out rocks, some water and then we even compile those to form other things (flesh). Now compiling 2% diffrence in DNA sequence over billions of times, we will get roses, fish, monkeys, and humans.
Saying we share 2% DNA structure with other animals is like comparing us to a rock because we all share the same basis of science.
(I hope this is understood)
Now about intelligence:
I had a dog that looked both ways before crossing the street, but yet we adults who can not even do that. Is my dog more intelligent? No.
If you have a brain dead person, is he intelligent? No. He still retains the same brain size, but he is as dumb as a brick. Brain size does NOT mean you are intelligent.
You could judge an animal on how intelligent it is compared to its brain size (but this defeats you arguement saying Chimps have a larger brain/to body mass compared to humans, so therefore, they should be much smarter than humans)

Lets say we give points to animals intelligence.

1 pt. for a snail. he can crawl into the shells for protection.
2 pts. for ants. They can work together to form a mound of dirt.
10 pts for a parrot, because he can remember a whole 100 words. (Right about Shaq's intelligence)
100 pts for a monkey because he can form groups, put a couple tools together and use them together and what else it can do.
10000 pts for humans, we can control any animals, build vast cities, travel anywhere in the world, go out in space, lie,cheat,and deceive one's selves and others.

Now take the differance between the smartest animal and a human, the gap is so great. Im not talking about its potential or its brain size to body mass, im talking about what it can actually accomplish. If man did evolve from an ape, where are the mediocre humans or the super smart apes, ones perhap that could tame other animals, but could not build vast cities.



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Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!