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Theory: Defense was so bad last season specifically b/c of Dwight and his impact on others.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bmd, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    We did read your post, and it generalizes way too much.

    You can't just say one player's attitude destroyed every aspect of a team's defense. So Dwight cause other players to not know when to switch on rotations and be confused all the time on screens? Dwight caused people to not run back on defense?

    Our defensive philosophy has always been about hustle with a lot of switching, which is extremely flawed with or without Dwight "sandbagging"
     
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  2. srrm

    srrm Contributing Member

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    It's incorrect to blame the failure of our defense on one guy.

    All you did was shift all the blame that posters place on Harden, to Dwight.

    Everyone involved in setting up and playing defense is to blame.

    Considering the roster now, we're going to miss our defensive anchor for sure. You can't scapegoat Dwight on this.
     
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  3. pwnyxpress

    pwnyxpress Contributing Member

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    This response and your op are all predicated on one theory, which is so chicken and egg that it's not even really a theory.

    The criticisms of your op are valid...it could all be the other way around that led to dwights lack of effort. Not sure why thatd not be just as viable.
     
  4. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Yes, it was the chemistry problems between both Dwight and Harden. Dwight not giving effort on defense leads to other players not giving effort on defense. Harden plays hero ball on the other end (possibly due to Dwight). Harden's hero ball makes other players less engaged on offense, which also leads to less effort on defense and less effort in transition due to them not being happy on offense.

    I can see it being on both Dwight and Harden.
     
  5. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Except that Dwight said his lack of effort was due specifically to Morey and the coaches telling him that he was not going to be getting the ball in the post very much. He was mad about his role, which tells me this was the catalyst that started it all.
     
  6. HayesIsBack

    HayesIsBack Member

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    You are arguing causal which is very difficult to prove. What caused what?

    You can easily argue that Dwight only got 8.5 shots per game and Harden 20 (and probably around 26 if you include shots that became FTs and shots aimed at drawing fouls and ended up being TOs), and then saw Harden sandbagging it even more on the defensive end (getting backdoored at least a couple of times a game), and deciding to also sandbag his defense.

    I don't think you'll get any arguments that Dwight did not play his best defensively last year. But I don't think you'll get many agreements that he was the main culprit, and above Harden. Harden's defensive lapses were totally deflating. Especially as teammates watching Harden just watch people go around him, behind him, cross over him, or out sprint him ... and then watching Harden point fingers at his teammates expecting them to not only cover his man, but also take the blame.

    Harden was the main culprit that led to the overall defensive decline.
     
  7. Levi

    Levi Member

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    This, Ty Lawson, Terrence Jones, and Brewer is what messed up our season.
     
  8. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    So much wrong. You guys will blame anyone not named Harden or Dmo.:rolleyes:
     
  9. HayesIsBack

    HayesIsBack Member

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    So Harden doesn't say anything, so it must not have been him?

    Who came into training camp out of shape? Harden.
    Who came into the season believing and saying he was the league MVP last year and the best player in the NBA? Harden.
    Who started the year off shooting 20% from 3s and not playing defense and rekindling his lazy defense reputation that he had managed to button down in the 2014-15 season? Harden.
     
  10. SirIvyLeague

    SirIvyLeague Member

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    None of that's correlated.

    It starts with the coach and star player; JB/McFail and Harden. I'd say Howard playing okay on defense was due to no touches on offense, no discipline by coach, etc. I don't think people downfalled from Howard's effort--this is on Harden and coach.
     
  11. Voice of Aus

    Voice of Aus Contributing Member

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    this screams of putting multiple things together to fit a narrative.

    its exactly what the media does with this team so i don't like it.

    but i see you point op, i just think blaming dwight is a weird way looking at it, they were quite good offensively still.
     
  12. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    This.

    There are way too many irrational threads like this out there with a clear anti-Dwight bias. All emotionally driven.

    Hate him all you want, but if your goal is to have a sensible discussion about the positives/negatives of a particular player, you're going to have to do a lot better than these vague generalizations.
     
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  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Villianizing one guy is a disservice.

    Each player needs to be judged on their contributions. If they are sandbagging, no matter what the reason, that is on THEM, not some one else.

    If you want a silver lining, how about with the additions of Gordon / Anderson, now Ariza / Beverley can put less focus on having to create offense and go back to just focusing on playing great defense and hitting open shots.
     
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  14. HayesIsBack

    HayesIsBack Member

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    But Harden said Dwert and himself were the stars, and everyone else are just role players. And Ty Lawson wasn't a part of the western conference finals team in 2014-15 ... and well, if your season depended on T Jones and Brewer, if any season depended on them ... you were ****ed from the start anyway.
     
  15. srrm

    srrm Contributing Member

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    I can't agree that Dwight's effort was that bad.

    There's no way to prove what you're saying. "Who quit on whom first?" can be tracked back a long way based on media reports but we'd definitely be wrong with the conclusion because we fans never get the full story.

    More likely is that everyone f'ed up at the same time by being out of shape, not practising early or with effort, or people just getting slower and older... not one guy dogging it causing others to do the same.

    It's over anyway, but we can't expect a magical improvement in defense knowing our roster is deficient in defense first guys. We planned for three defense first guys starting with Harden as a compensation measure, one was Dwight, the best defensive big man in the game! Without his replacement and defensive mojo returning to our remaining players, we're definitely not going to be a better defensive team next season with the roster as it stands.
     
  16. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    And if Harden knew that, he should've made sure that Dwight got shots in the post. Nothing excessive...maybe once a quarter. If he makes his attempt, keep giving him the ball until he misses. Considering that our offense primarily consisted of Harden's hero-ball, this should've been the obvious solution.

    In term of the big picture, a motivated defensive Dwight was worth much more than a few wasted offensive possessions.

    If you insist on blaming anyone, blame Harden for denying Dwight's reasonable request.
     
  17. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Dwight was a big part of the problem, yes, but he wasn't solely responsible for last season's collapse. That was a team and organizational failure on multiple levels. Offensively, they were a disorganized and directionless mess. The sudden firing of the HC after only 11 games threw the entire season into a slow motion kaos that slowly ground down as the season progressed. Management had no plan after letting McHale go so they thrust an unprepared rookie coach JBB into the blender. Harden was totally overworked offensively, you had hit and miss contributions from the rest of the team which led to Harden having to score 40+ points a game just to give them a chance, Dwight sulked because he had no clear role in the offense and well because he is Dwight who watches video of himself dunking in a Superman costume every night before he goes to bed, players turned on each other, there was zero leadership from the GM on down, defensively JBB couldn't get them to exert much of an effort, and so on. It was a textbook example of the term "Cluster****". Dwight was bad alright but he wasn't the cancer you've made him out to be here. His sulking was more like the final straw.
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    "Harden isn't the type of guy who likes to move" -Calvin Watkins

    And we all saw it. Well people who watched the games, which I unfortunately did
     
  19. HayesIsBack

    HayesIsBack Member

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    Dwight still shot 62% FGs. In line with his Orlando days. Certainly Harden could not decide in the season's first 10 games or so whether Dwight was reliable enough a scorer, considering he himself was shooting something like 34/20%
     
  20. Rumps

    Rumps Member

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    Dude, it was very simple.

    Coaching inspires effort on both ends. Individual accountability and effort is not to be blamed on the "cancer" effect that you're eluding to.

    The rockets gave up three more assists per game as compared to 2014-2015 which in turn spawned better 2pt FG% (48.7 to 51.4) and better 3pt FG% (.322 to .361).

    However, the 2014-2015 defensive numbers were a bit of an anomaly because almost every Rocket on that squad regressed in a positive way. Their true defensive value lies between last year's dumpster fire and the previous season's bad assery.

    In other words, a James Harden led team is most likely never going to meet or exceed 2014-2015's defensive numbers ever again. So, instead of shooting for somewhere in the middle for the last two seasons, Morey and Les are simply looking for scoring records.
     

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