It's right up there with the Myth of Yao's defense. He averages barely 2 bpg at 7' 6. Even Shawn Bradley who is much weaker looking averaged over 3 and 4 blocks per game when there was still illegal defense. Yao camps in the paint and averages less than 2 for his career and many times he gets abused by the bigger quicker centers like Stoudemire and Boozer. Morey was floating something out there a few weeks ago (also defending Aaron Brooks) about how it was a luxory to be able to know you had Yao back there incase your man got by you on the perimeter. How about, NOT LET YOUR MAN GET BY YOU??? As far as needing "shooters," I am one that still believes you need that ultimate perimeter guy that when plays break down, a team saggs into the paint, etc that can just eat you alive from outside. The Rockets still apparently don't have that even with Martin. Most championship teams have that kind of guy, sometimes more than one. Billups, Fisher, Ray Allen, James Posey, Ginobili, Horry, Steve Kerr, Kenny Smith, the list goes on. It's no mystery that Orlando beat out Cleveland to goto the finals with the likes of Rashard Lewis and Turkoglu. That was what hurt Cleveland and continues to hurt Cleveland. They don't have that one guy that can decimate you from the outside all game long.
Just to add to that. Because even if teams double in the NBA, they are good enough to rotate or get back to the perimeter guy. This was much more difficult when they had illegal defense so the guy coming to double had to be at the 3 point line guarding his man. This not only made it harder to double, but made it harder to get back on defense. Also, now with the rules, the guy that can come over and double is usually not your guard on the perimeter, but another PF/C, which is why you are seeing so many of the bigger Euro PF/C's getting gigs in the NBA because they can shoot from the outside. Otherwise they are pretty much useless in the other aspects of the game like defense and rebouding.
If you cannot see teams always double team Yao right after he got the ball, you have not watched any of the Rockets games in the past two years. Right, they often fronted him before he got the ball and double teamed him after he got the ball. Why is it so difficult for you to see it? Sometimes I just wonder if you guys have actually watched the games before you start typing.
Let me just say this in response to this thread. How many open 3's do we get this year compared to last? Seems like every 3 from Battier was wide open from the corner. Do you still see that this year?
I guess trugoy's argument is that since he had been fronted before he received the ball, this is not considered a double team. Or perhaps I have totally misunderstood his point? I am waiting here to be enlightened, humbly.
Lock this thread. This is beyond dumb. Yao is infamous for being doubled and even tripled under some circumstances. Hell, it even happens before we try to get him the ball. That's great for the other guys, makes their job much easier.
Here are the results of Yao's "touches" from some games I charted last season... I glossed over the charts quickly and counted that 81 of his 209 touches were doubled before the ball left Yao's hand. That's about 39% of the time. However, since this is only a study of Yao's touches, you must take into consideration the number of times he was doubled in some way before the entry pass, which resulted in no "touch" being charted in the first place. Thunder (11/17/08) Wizards (11/21/08) Spoiler Heat (11/24/08) Spoiler Pacers (11/26/08) Spoiler Spurs (11/29/08) Spoiler Nuggets (11/30/08) Spoiler
First off, kudos to ClutchCityReturns for putting up the data that Yao is doubled frequently, which is self-evident for anyone who has any clue about how the Rox were played last year. Not to mention the fact that when defenses are forced to front Yao, it's not their ideal strategy since it opens up the weak side. This is why the Rox did better last year since we finally had Scola on the other side who could make them pay for fronting Yao. Second, the idea that because Yao *only* averages 2 bpg makes him an overrated defensive player is a misreading of statistics--i.e. you're overrating the importance of bpg to his overall defensive impact. The 2bpg doesn't take into account the intimidation factor of having someone his size in the lane and the altered shots he causes. His presence in the paint simply clogs up the lane which forces the other team to take more mid-range jump shots than to take it inside. While I'd agree that quicker bigs like Boozer cause him trouble because they can face him up and drive around him or shoot from outside, he's really effective at post defense.
The Old Man and LeeBig are correct about how teams will change up the defense depending on the game time, situation and personell they have on the floor.. The game is all about improvision and part of the problem is adjusting to what your opponent is trying to do. The biggest element that is missing from today's game is Big Men understanding how to play their position. Today's big men have no understanding of how to repost, Kareem was great at that... It was hard to double Kareem, becuase he would pass the ball back out and then repost, you very seldom if ever see that today. The other is learning how to use your teammates.. again Kareem was great at this and Hakeem learned it in his later years.. Basically, pass the ball back out to the open man, this way you make the defense pay for the double team.. Once Hakeem pass the ball back out from the initial post Kenny, Ellie, Vernon, Horry and others would make the defens pay and it would also loosen up the defense on Hakeem.. The big men today get the ball and try a bulldog move to basket no matter what or who's in the way... I see Scola doing this and it drives me crazy. So past the ball back out repost and hopefully the guards will pass the ball back in... As for the fronting.. last I checked there were to sides to a court... Move the ball to the opposite side and have the Post man repost on the opposite side... If nothing else you were the fronting guy down... Nothing in the rule states you have to stay on one side of the court. Use your strengths and adjust to the defense...
What? Anyone with eyes and a third grade education should be able to see Yao gets doubled frequently.
The way to punish the opponents is to attack the basket. Last year, we have Battier and Artest who does not have the quickness to attack the basket when Yao is being doubled. This year with Martin and Ariza...i am sure it's a more much lethal combination.
Agreed you have to attack.. But you have to attack for a reason... If 2 is on 1 then there is someone open..... I remember hearing Doc Rivers say this... There is a difference between running recklessly and running for a reason..
Fronting takes a lot more energy that's why not many will front. Fronting will usually coincide with double team for it to be effective in shutting Yao down permanently in the way of sandwiching...
Agreed. I don't know how many people here play basketball, but fronting is damn difficult/tiring, and leads to offensive rebounds and putbacks.
From what I remember (from almost a year ago), Yao really was only fronted in the 4th quarter. The other 3 quarters he was doubled. Of course that's not the case for every game, but in general, I remember him having the most problems in the 4th when he was fronted.
I do agree teams dont double yao as much as people think on this board. Basic basketball tells every team after 3 dribbles, dig the ball. Every basic basketball ideology tells you anytime any player is 8ft from the basket collapse. Fronting defense is not a double. It only works against yao because he has slow feet and cant reverse pivot and seal when the ball does and having a non dribble penetrator like shane allows that half a man. Thats why trugoy's idea of just swinging the ball from side to side is fraud.
OP is trying to justify his hatred for Brooks and love of Lowry, sepcifically with who starts. He is looking for things to support his argument, rather than building an arguement based on whats actually occuring.
You would think that that Shawn Bradley stat would tip you off to the relative emptiness of BPG, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised considering you agree with trugoy's original (and ridiculous) premise. Keep up the good work.
