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The worst shooting season in the history of the NBA/ABA

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rogower, Dec 27, 2014.

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  1. Houston22

    Houston22 Member

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    Yeah, but he should have passed the ball a couple of times and it was pretty obvious when he chose to score.
     
    #81 Houston22, Dec 28, 2014
  2. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #82 sirbaihu, Dec 28, 2014
  3. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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    Houston has never lost a game where Josh Smith took 21 shots. True story.
     
    #83 mclawson, Dec 28, 2014
  4. K-Low_4_Prez

    K-Low_4_Prez Member

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    Smith didnt even take that many bad shots... there were a couple of mid range jumpers that weren't great but he is still getting used to our style of play. The 3 pointers all came within the flow of the offense and he is going to shoot those just like D-mo will shoot them.
     
    #84 K-Low_4_Prez, Dec 28, 2014
  5. rogower

    rogower Member

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    I gave you 3+ (2011-12, 2012-13, 2013-14, and 2014-15 so far) seasons, what else can I do? The data from 2011-12 to the present--nearly three and a half seasons--demonstrates that Josh Smith has consistently been among the very worst in the NBA in the true shooting percentage category (minimum of 12 field goal attempts/game).

    I hope the Josh Smith experiment works out for Houston. I would like for Houston to win the championship. But teams with chuckers--I am defining a chucker as someone with a poor true shooting percentage who nonetheless jacks up a lot of shots (12 field goal attempts/game seems about right to me)--do not win championships, or at least I don't think they do (I may need to do more research but my gut tells me no). So either Smith needs to suddenly turn into an acceptable shooter or he needs to stop shooting. Dennis Rodman was not a good shooter but he did not shoot. Same goes with Ben Wallace. Lots of guys are great in other aspects of the game but have the good sense not to shoot the ball unless they have to.
     
    #85 rogower, Dec 28, 2014
  6. scolandry1

    scolandry1 Member

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    I'd like to know how NBA.com calculates offensive rating. Basketball-Reference.com's offensive rating shows 103 for JSmith.
     
    #86 scolandry1, Dec 28, 2014
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I'm talking about finding 25 game samples within seasons.
     
    #87 Mr. Clutch, Dec 28, 2014
  8. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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    So did you watch the game? No? Yes? Maybe? Highlights? Listened on the radio? Had your sister perform an interpretive dance of Smith's performance? Just looked at the box score? Didn't even look at the box score? Read tweets about the game from people who just read the box score? Read ESPN's analysis only? Talked about the game over beers with Tony Brothers and Mark Cuban?
     
    #88 mclawson, Dec 28, 2014
  9. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    You can justify your criteria. Obviously you disregard defense and many other aspects of the game.
     
    #89 sirbaihu, Dec 28, 2014
  10. rogower

    rogower Member

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    I am interested to know if there are teams with chuckers who have nonetheless competed for championships. I am defining a "chucker" as someone with a minimum of 12 field goal attempts per game but with a bad true shooting percentage. I am going to go back ten years, to 2005-2006, so we have a nice sample size. I may later go farther back than 2005-2006.

    Bottom ten player seasons in TS%, minimum of 12 field goal attempts/game:

    2014-15

    1 Josh Smith (1 = the worst)
    2 Michael Carter-Williams
    3 Kobe Bryant
    4 Thaddeus Young
    5 Tyreke Evans
    6 David West
    7 DeMar DeRozan
    8 Avery Bradley
    9 Kemba Walker
    10 Ty Lawson

    Only DeRozan's team is playoff bound here. I suspect Toronto's excellent GM would trade DeRozan for a more efficient player if he could.

    2013-14

    1 Derrick Rose
    2 Josh Smith
    3 Trey Burke
    4 Michael Carter-Williams
    5 Brandon Jennings
    6 Carlos Boozer
    7 Jared Sullinger
    8 Evan Turner
    9 Kemba Walker
    10 Tyreke Evans

    Rose only played in 10 games. Boozer was cut after the season and Chicago lost quickly in the playoffs. Walker's Charlotte team also lost quickly in the playoffs. Everybody else missed the playoffs, if you classify Turner as a Sixer rather than as a Pacer.

    2012-13

    1 Kevin Love (only 18 games, injury-plagued season)
    2 Evan Turner
    3 Andrea Bargnani
    4 Glen Davis
    5 Dion Waiters
    6 Monta Ellis
    7 Rudy Gay
    8 Jrue Holiday
    9 Jameer Nelson
    10 Josh Smith

    Only Smith's Atlanta team made the playoffs. They tried to move him before the trade deadline and they did not re-sign him. One source of hope here is that Gay and Ellis have both improved with new teams so maybe Josh Smith can do the same with Houston.

    2011-12

    1 Tayshaun Prince
    2 Chris Kaman
    3 Antawn Jamison
    4 Jordan Crawford
    5 Jrue Holiday
    6 Demarcus Cousins
    7 Josh Smith
    8 Luol Deng
    9 John Wall
    10 DeMar DeRozan

    Holiday's Sixers may have made the playoffs. Smith's Hawks did. Deng's Bulls did. None of these teams were really competing for a championship. Interesting how the Bulls coaching staff tolerates poor shooting, we keep seeing Bulls players pop up on these bottom ten lists.

    2010-11

    1 Tyreke Evans
    2 Demarcus Cousins
    3 Brandon Jennings
    4 John Wall
    5 Andray Blatche
    6 Mo Williams
    7 Michael Beasley
    8 John Salmons
    9 Tayshaun Prince
    10 Antawn Jamison

    Note that this is the first season where Josh Smith does not make the bottom ten. I think Jennings and Salmons both played for a Bucks team that may have snuck into the playoffs.

    2009-2010

    1 Brandon Jennings
    2 Rodney Stuckey
    3 Trevor Ariza (Rockets)
    4 Russell Westbrook
    5 Baron Davis
    6 Richard Hamilton
    7 Michael Beasley
    8 Caron Butler
    9 Gilbert Arenas
    10 Devin Harris

    None of these players' teams did anything in the playoffs and most missed the playoffs. Ariza's name is cause for hope as his shooting later really improved.

    2008-2009

    1 Baron Davis
    2 Raymond Felton
    3 Elton Brand
    4 Russell Westbrook
    5 Cuttino Mobley
    6 Marquis Daniels
    7 Tracy McGrady
    8 Al Thornton
    9 Monta Ellis
    10 Allen Iverson

    Another list full of players whose teams did nothing in the playoffs or missed the playoffs altogether.

    2007-2008

    1 Tracy McGrady
    2 Jermaine O'Neal
    3 Rafer Alston
    4 Raymond Felton
    5 Zach Randolph
    6 Mike Bibby
    7 Kevin Durant
    8 Josh Smith (!)
    9 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
    10 Elton Brand

    Finally we get to our very first player whose team did anything. Ilgauskas'Cavs went 45-37 and took the Boston Celtics to a Game 7 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals.

    2006-07

    1 Adam Morrison
    2 Jamaal Tinsley
    3 Larry Hughes
    4 Raymond Felton
    5 Desmond Mason
    6 Rafer Alston
    7 Jermaine O'Neal
    8 Josh Smith (!)
    9 T.J. Ford
    10 Jason Richardson

    This is the year that Cleveland made it all the way to the NBA Finals, where San Antonio swept the. Despite Larry Hughes chucking away. This is another example of how good Leron was and how bad his teammates were. This is also the year that the #8 seed Warriors beat the #1 seed Mavs. No other player's team here did anything special.

    2005-2006

    1 Emeka Okafor
    2 Darius Miles
    3 Chris Webber
    4 Zach Randolph
    5 Baron Davis
    6 Ron Artest
    7 Tracy McGrady
    8 Larry Hughes
    9 Stephen Jackson
    10 Al Harrington

    Ugh, Darius Miles! Hughes is the only player here whose team did much, they lost in the conference semifinals.

    So here is ten years' worth of data. Draw your own conclusions. My conclusion is that you can't really get very far in the playoffs with chuckers unless you have Lebron James on your team. And if Cleveland management was able to put together a decent supporting cast then Lebron would have led Cleveland to many championships and would have never gone to Miami in the first place but we all know that already.

    Josh Smith needs to stop being a chucker if Houston expects to do anything this season!
     
    #90 rogower, Dec 28, 2014
  11. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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    So, you didn't watch the game then? Got it.
     
    #91 mclawson, Dec 28, 2014
  12. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    why do you choose 12 minimum and not 10 or 8?

    Also why bottom 10 not 15 or 20?
     
    #92 vlaurelio, Dec 28, 2014
  13. rogower

    rogower Member

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    Ten years' worth of data vs a fan's subjective analysis based on one game!

    There is the data, reach your own conclusions, look at the data, don't look at the data, whatever. Chuckers = bad!
     
    #93 rogower, Dec 28, 2014
  14. rogower

    rogower Member

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    Jesus Christ! I give up.
     
    #94 rogower, Dec 28, 2014
  15. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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    Finally. Now, go watch some of the games.
     
    #95 mclawson, Dec 28, 2014
  16. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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    You go on about how important Black's offensive rebounds are yet didn't see the game where Smith pulled down two late in the game to help seal it. You can look at stats all day long but without the context of watching the games themselves the story is incomplete. How he played and shot and performed in Detroit has nothing to do with how he'll perform in Houston. Your whole premise is flawed, your logic is faulty, you cherry pick data to fit your narrative, and I seriously question if you've ever actually watched a Rockets game this year or any other. Oh, and your mother dresses you funny.

    Watch the game tonight. You might find it more enjoyable than sorting stats to fit some ludicrous story you wish to tell.
     
    #96 mclawson, Dec 28, 2014
  17. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    #97 juicystream, Dec 28, 2014
  18. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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    #98 mclawson, Dec 28, 2014
  19. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    That OT rebound over Carter was a man-size rebound like we have rarely been getting at the 4.
     
    #99 sirbaihu, Dec 28, 2014
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    -Iverson with the 6ers made the Finals with a low TS%.

    -Kenyon Martin was the #2 option when the Nets made b2b Finals.

    -Knicks under JVG had almost all inefficient scorers.

    Not only that, but Josh Smith has been decently efficient as a PF vs. a SF.

    Plus, he's a 3rd option.

    You also need to adjust for pace. The Rockets as a team take tons of shots. So 12+ shots for Smith is a smaller % of team shots than on past, slower paced teams.

    A theme here is those were some good defensive teams. And the Rockets are that.
     
    #100 Mr. Clutch, Dec 28, 2014
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