The world HAS to question Islam !

Yes, they need to create an alternative vision of Islam that muslims can be passionate and proud about. A version of Islam that is strong and independent, that is revered and respected by the west.

One that is rich in the best that Islam has - culturally, politically, religiously and scientifically. It's not about a moderate movement - it's about a movement to define what Islam is in the world eyes.

 

Do the moderates have that kind of power?

would it be like saying the libertarians must stand up in america
even if true
do they have the power to do it?

Rocket River

 

The Western tendency is to think standing up in the form of revolution or protests. We did it against anti-colonialism. The French did it, and Latin America did it as well.

What if the people in the ME are siding and supporting the terrorists? Does that still count as standing? American revolutionaries were considered radicals and the tories were the moderates. Granted, the violence and brutality isn't the same, and the cultures are different. But they are still standing up. They're standing up not because of who we are, but what we've done.

What we've done to their leaders can be up to considerable debate. But the facts are that they've held power for 30+ years and they've have become obscenely rich from their land. Their children and heirs have received advanced Western degrees from studying abroad and have lived a modern life that far exceeds most net pundits will ever live. These are not backward leaders the media portrays. But they can be brutal, oppressive, and unforgiving in the face of dissent. They are our allies.

There's the assumption that our political and economic powers that be are on the same beat with the American public. Probably because we're on the same team or we think we win and lose just as badly. It's more like the right hand not talking to the left hand. The left hand props up the roots of extremism while the right signals to tear the fruits of extremism down. The left hand cashes the check from its bloody allies while the right hand feels the brunt of terrorism.

If we want a different result, we have to impose different expectations upon ourselves and question how the Middle East truly effects us. The Terror war is a reaction to our thirst for cheap fuel. If we eliminate that, then it won't be important for our government prop up the cruel "Islamofacist" leaders that the American people feel the ME moderates should stand up against.

 

I stopped right here. Are you kidding me? Islam has been questioned by the West since the 9th century! Ever heard of the martyrs of Cordova? Ever read Dante? Please, take a history course! These issues did not just arise today!

 

that's right! let me drop some history too:

By the 5th century B.C., continued preference for ever-larger leaved had led to the development of the vegetable we now know as kale. Kale is known botanically by the name Brassica oleracea variety acephala which translates to mean "cabbage of the vegetable garden without a head."

 

So wrong! The point is that if you pressure them and oppress them, it just doesn't work.

I have asked this question before. Give me an example where oppression has caused a religion to modrate. Of course, complete annihilation and or several generations of vigorous intermarriage can work.

We have so few of the immoderate Muslims you fear precisely because WE DO NOT PRESSURE THEM much to change.

 

A good way to take the pressure off the Muslim religion is to stop doing stupid stuff like invading Iraq, and encouraging Israel to bomb Muslims in Lebanon and violate UN Resolutions wrt to Palestinian land etc..

 

i agree, terrorists are a problem.

 

Aren't the moderate Muslims the vast majority? You can't say that about the LIbertarians...

Our alleged Christian nation hunts down, captures and punishes Christian criminals with regularity and righteous indignation.

 

well the converse is also true,
the people who claimed to be 'muslim' shouldn't piss off everyone else by calling everyone infidels and 'death to america' or blow up airplanes


so both sides of the coin are true.

 

The subject of women's rights in the Muslim world seems strangely ignored here on the board and by news media. Why are there no politically correct groups or posters addressing the second class citizenship of Arab women in America and elsewhere?

The worst opinion seems to be "oh, it's a bad thing. Now on to more important issues." What is NOW, the ACLU et al doing about this issue?

 

But, at its heart, a religion is about a relationship between an individual and God. Why does some random moderate person in Indonesia care whether his or her beliefs are respected and revered by the West? What matters is their relationship to God and the belief that they are living the right way.

 

As do Muslim nations - they are nations of laws as well, though we may disagree with the specific laws and the relative punishment.

I assume you are talking about them hunting down terrorists, though. But the US doesn't necessarily try to capture or stop people here who are inciting violence in countries we dislike such as Cuba. Ultimately, it's all about politics. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

How does this make any sense?? You question the inherent message of Islam in other threads and this one, yet now you say that terrorists "hiding behind the Muslim faith is a fairly recent event." Well then if it's recent, and Islam's history dates back to 600 A.D., don't you think the problem isn't Islam itself but rather the contribution of some outside factor?? You just said yourself it's a recent event? So which is it? Is Islam evil and does it teach people to murder and kill or is some outside factor contributing to this modern day phenomenon?

 

If this was true then no one would have cared about those cartoons...

 

You tell us.

 

Moderate Muslims, for the most part, weren't the ones rioting and torching things.

 

Pretty simple, SJC. Look at the history of Islam as a whole, and then contrast it to the modern day phenomenon of Muslim terrorism...