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The West

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rimrocker, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Some folks in Europe think we're no longer part of it. Hard to argue with some of the points. And really, when a German is using the United States as a cautionary tale about the decline of democratic values, that should tell us something.

    Here's a guy from England... and when you have the English criticizing you for becoming too oligarchic, there's probably something to it.

    It's hard for me to accept that the US and Western Europe still have a core set of beliefs we share. When a terrorist attacks and one responds with wars and Patriot Acts and the other responds with a call for more democracy, the difference is apparent.

    (Note: I'm not saying Western Europe is perfect. They have huge issues with the monied folks and divisive internal politics. But there does seem to be a major drift in the relationships that were forged during and after WWII.)

    Another example: Rule of law. The ideology has become so blinding that our judicial system (You know, that part of government that is based on Western European and Classical ideas that is supposed to make just decisions about our lives and society?) is dysfunctional. Here's a look...

    [​IMG]

    Then again, Bush v. Gore, Citizens United, and a host of other recent horrible rulings by the Supreme Court kind of take the polish off the idea of impartial judges working for the common good. The fact that we have legal scholars justifying torture and undermining the legal precedent that we, the United States, along with our European Allies developed and supported at Nuremberg is astonishing to me. Yep, it is bracing to consider, but given where we are now, we no longer stand for Western ideas that were the defining values for much of the last century. Welcome to the new Rome.
     
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  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    This would carry more weight if the EU hadn't been busy the last year moving towards tea party style austerity and crushing their own economy due to a Goldline-esque fear of inflation.
     
  3. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Perhaps, but the economic lens is not the only one available to us.
     
  4. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    And what exactly is that and why does it take a German to tell us?
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    it is when we're watching our 401k's et al take a nice tea bath.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    And also if a one of those enlightened Euros hadn't recently gone on a shooting spree because he was angry over immigration or while London is burning over riots.

    I can agree with pretty much everything stated in both articles but the tone of both strikes me as almost stereotypical European snobbery towards America. While there is much to be admired about Europe before they start laying the blame of the decline of the West on the US they should be taking a hard look at the what is going on in their own continent.
     
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  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    I think this article about the state of u.s. politics has been done in every language. That's not to say anyone is better. I think the reality is that countries who exposed themselves to the reasons for the financial crisis got fudged, and the non-rich people are paying for it, and the frustration is getting to people and rightfully so.

    In the case of the USA, its been exacerbated by a reduction of resources to make leaders of the two big parties happy. Also, the usa is improportionately highly visible to the rest of the world, which is suddenly a disadvantage.
     

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