The Wesley Clark Thread

If, as it seems, this is the crux of your pbjection, you might want to read more about how it actually came to pass.

 

No one has blown off those who support Dean. As a matter of fact, I think they (whoever gets the nomination) will be eager to tap into that group Dean has energized. And I think Dean will ultimately lend his support in that effort if he comes to realize it's not going to happen for him. Any of the other candidates who failed to court those people, and Dean in that situation, would be somewhere past foolhardy.

I'm looking forward to Dean campaigning for the eventual nominee and bringing his supporters with him. And he should be looking at a Cabinet post if he desires it. That's my take, anyway. If Dean is truly as passionate about getting Bush out on his butt as he seems, then how can he do any less?

 

If, as it seems, this is the crux of your pbjection, you might want to read more about how it actually came to pass.


The Kerry comment is only a single example of the "look at me - I'm a General" thing. I remember watching one of the early debates (maybe the Detroit one) and all of his answers basically were that. He would say maybe a sentence or two about the topic - if that - and then go back to how he's a General or how he's so patriotic or led an army or whatever. It's was ridiculous - he didn't answer a single question that was asked of him, even when the moderator cut him off and asked it again (that was the Iraq question, to which he kept responding how he supported the war on Afghanistan, and then going into his I'm a General mode).

 

Good analysis of Clark, Major. Especially the pro-choice stuff. I think you're dead on there. He seems to be getting his domestic issues from his campaign and I think that's why he has trouble speaking extemporaneously. He doesn't actually own those convictions. And if he did, of course, he never could have been such a good Republican.

Here's where I think you've got it wrong:

The Clark-Kerry rank-pulling stuff has been blown way out of proportion. I saw it live when it happened. It was on Larry King with Dole, after the Iowa results came in, and Dole was very hard on him. He said something like, 'with all due respect, it seems like Kerry's the general now and you've been demoted.' I'm off on the quote, but that was the nature of it. Clark was caught off-guard. It was an unusually harsh analysis of the Iowa results (though ultimately a right one) and Clark responded to a reference to his rank by stating what his rank was and what Kerry's was. It was awkward, yes, but it wasn't calculated, it wasn't strategy and I don't think he would have said it if Dole hadn't said what he said. Now it's being played like he went out of his way to remind people he outranked Kerry, which is not how it went down. The Dole comment was the sort of thing you'd usually hear from an analyst after the interview. As it went Clark came on via satellite, said "Hi, Bob. How are you?" and Dole responded with something that amounted to "I'm fine but you just lost the race." As it was so many times with Dean, much ado about nothing which turned into a huge deal. Our political system can be very gross.

 

Here are some of the quotes:

<I>
During an appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live" as the Iowa results rolled in, former Senator Bob Dole said to General Clark that he thought the success of Mr. Kerry, also a decorated Vietnam War veteran, might have turned the general into a colonel.

"Well I don't agree," General Clark said. "Senator, with all due respect, he's a lieutenant and I'm a general. You've got to get your facts right."

Asked later about the exchange, General Clark acknowledged Senator Kerry's military background. But, he added: "Nobody in the race has got the kind of background I've got. I've negotiated peace agreements. I've led a major alliance in war. It's one thing to be a hero as a junior officer. He's done that and I respect him for that. He's been a good senator. But I've had the military leadership at the top as well as at the bottom."

</I>

It doesn't look too bad, but I just don't think there was a need for that. I wish he had stayed above it - something like "Kerry's a war hero too. I just feel that my experience as NATO commander is uniquely suited to being commander in chief" or something along those lines. Just no need to mention that Kerry's experience was as a junior officer - even if it wasn't meant to be, it sounded condescending to me.

 

Deckard, compared to the hundreds of thousands of people who actually gave Dean money or to the however many that dropped everything to go volunteer for him in various states, I am hardly an enthusiastic Dean supporter. When I talk about the grass roots I'm talking about a group to which I do not personally belong. But many, many times while Kerry or Lieberman or Gephardt was bashing Dean (and I mean bashing) I thought, man, I don't think I'll be able to vote for those guys. They're just dicks. And they have no respect for Dean or his people. Now, you can call me right or wrong for thinking that, but that's what I thought and I'm still mad at those guys about it. And if that's what I thought... Well, yes, I'm sure you're right that the DNC and Kerry or whoever it is would like to have the Dean vote, but they've had a funny way of showing it so far. And a great many of those people will never ever vote for Kerry (especially). Clark? Sure. Edwards? Probably. Kerry? No way. No matter what Dean says they should do. He's already said, by the way, that he won't be a spoiler and that if it becomes mathematically impossible for him to win he'll throw support to the nominee. Don't think for a minute that that means his supporters will. And even if they do, they won't give and they won't volunteer. A lot of them feel like they were part of a movement that was killed by the politics as usual of the Democratic party. I happen to agree with them and I'm not even hard core.

That said, a week before Iowa I made up a fantasy cabinet list that had Kerry and Edwards at the top with Dean as Sec. of Health.

 

Batman...as you seem to have a good feeling for Dean, suppose Clark gets the nomination. Any chance of Dean being his running mate? If this thing gets any closer, Dean endorsing Clark could be a huge factor...and they might actually compliment each other well. What do you think?

 

MacBeth:

I don't think Dean helps Clark on the ticket. And even in those ways I might think he would, Clark's people definitely wouldn't agree. Also, I don't think Dean would make a very good number two guy. He has an executive style and personality. If it had gone Dean's way, Clark would have made a lot of sense on his ticket if he hadn't gone so far out of his way to rule it out. It's kind of weird how intensely Clark and Edwards have ruled out the VP slot. It almost makes you think they actually have. Almost.

I was talking to a cameraman from the ABC affiliate here at the Clark event and he told me he thought it would be Bill Richardson. He swore Richardson definitely wants it (contrary to what he's said) and he thought he was on short lists for Kerry and Dean. Also said that if the field was open in 2008, he would run and he thought he'd be the frontrunner.

 

Would Richardson compliment Clark well? Don't know much.

Ok, so Dean wouldn't run with Clark, but can you envision him swinging his support behind him?

 

Joseph Wilson IV = State
Wesley Clark = Defense
Carol Mosley-Braun = Justice
Dick Gephardt = Labor
Dennis Kucinich = Interior
Max Cleland = Homeland Security
Bill Bradley = Education

 

Richardson would complement pretty much anyone well. Popular Latino governor of a swing state, former Ambassador to the UN, former Energy Secretary. He's also chairing the convention, so he'll get lots of play there. Does anyone know if a convention chair's ever been the VP nominee, by the way? Would make for an interesting convention.

I know Dean will support Clark if he's the nominee. He wouldn't throw support to him while he's virtually running even with him though. I don't know what he'd do in an even race between Clark and Kerry. It's conceivable he'd back Clark. He'd certainly prefer him to Kerry.

outlaw: Cool list. I had Clark at State, McCain at Defense, Dean at Health, Gephardt at Labor, Gore as head of EPA and Bill Clinton or Carter as UN Ambassador. I don't remember the rest of it. I don't think even one of those would happen (maybe Clark), but it was fun to think about.

 

Thanks, CC.

 

http://slate.msn.com/toolbar.aspx?id=2094860

on the trail
From the Mouths of Babes
The general's son on sweaters, speeding tickets, and the corrupt political press.
By Chris Suellentrop
Posted Tuesday, Feb. 3, 2004, at 12:32 PM PT

OKLAHOMA CITY—Maybe Wesley Clark Jr. saw the early exit polls. For whatever reason, he's standing in front of a crowd of reporters outside Clark's campaign headquarters in Oklahoma, looking bitter and sounding as if he thinks his father's campaign is over. "It's been a really disillusioning experience," the candidate's 34-year-old son says. "We sacrificed a hell of a lot for this country over 34 years. We lived in a damn trailer when I was a freshman in high school."

I'm late to the party because I was inside the campaign office watching Clark Sr. make phone calls to voters. But apparently Clark Jr. said he was writing a screenplay about the campaign process, and it sounds like it won't be a positive treatment. Of politics, he says, "It's a dirty business, filled with a lot of people who are pretending to be a lot of things they're not." The press never looked at his father's record, he says. They didn't treat the other candidates fairly either. Howard Dean got unfair coverage, he says. So did John Edwards. So did John Kerry. So did everyone.

What about the president? Does he get fair coverage from the press? "If the president had gotten fair coverage, he never would have gotten elected in the first place," Clark says. Has the media done a poor job of getting his father's message out? "It's not the media's job to get his message out. The media's job is to sell advertising."

A reporter asks, do you think your father has been well served by his campaign? For once, Clark declines to offer an opinion. "Uh, I'm not going to comment on the campaign. I'll put it this way. I think he was the best candidate." Then he adds, "I wish they would have competed in Iowa, personally." Because elections don't matter, he says. The media's horse-race coverage is all that matters, and by skipping Iowa, Clark got left out of the horse race. "It's all horse-race questions," he says. "My favorite was Dad wearing a sweater in New Hampshire one day. Maybe he was wearing a sweater because he was cold."

But why has the president gotten positive coverage while the Democrats have gotten negative coverage, in his opinion? "It's about access. You know that you'll be denied access if you actually cover things honestly." He follows this with a recommendation that we go work in Hollywood if we don't understand how the political press works, because they need good storytellers in Hollywood, too. (I hope to have a fuller transcript of Clark's comments later today, after reporters gather to watch the videotape. I'll update if there's anything worth adding.)

At this point, Clark's traveling press secretary, Jamal Simmons, sees the crowd of reporters and breaks things up. Comparing notes with some reporters after the event, I scribble down a few quotes that Clark said before I showed up. Among them are "I'd like him to win today. If he doesn't win, I don't want him to stay out there," and "What did we get on the news for this weekend? A speeding ticket in Oklahoma. You gotta be ****ing kidding me."

The press corps gathers at the hotel and gets ready to file. Simmons tells us the general's take on his son's comments: "He loves him. He has his own opinions."

 

"I don't actually know why you hate Dean or Trippi (or the 'Deaniacs') so much. "

Hate? Geeze you are too emotionally attached to the guy [it seems]. I dont hate Howard Dean ( i dont know him enough to either like or dislike him, though I dont think he as great a guy the Deanheads would have you believe), I would just hate it if he was the Democratic nominee. I don't believe he would be able to handle the weight of the presidency, and running teeny-tiny Vermont does not impress me. I dont like the way he has acted since he lost Iowa either. Say whatever you want about Kerry, but at least he didnt attack him personally like Dean did Sunday.

That will be all from me in the clark thread...

 

Okay, Troy.

I've never heard you speak to Dean being a small state governor as the reason for worrying about his readiness for the job. I'd mostly heard you repeat the 'conventional wisdom' that hurt him so badly (for example that he was a hothead which I found incredibly interesting given your support of McCain), which is why I argued with you. I think the stuff that actually killed Dean was unfair and wrong and you seemed to be saying it wasn't. That's all. I am emotionally invested in our political system being superficial bull**** sufficient to quash the exact sort of grass roots movement many of us always say we want -- not so much in Dean himself. Arkansas, by the by, is not a huge state either. But, cool. I think this one's played out.

 

I realize that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the kind of job Clark would do as president or whatever, but I absolutely can't stand his smile. There's just something about it.