The Vick Trade Revisted

but Elway was an unreal passer on the college level. elway wasn't a scramble first guy. elway set the NCAA d-1 record for attempts and completions. he passed for over 9000 yards at standford and threw for 77 TD's.

Vick is a running back. these guys are so different, it's silly.

 

We are talking what he did on the pros now, not college.

Vick is a running back? He threw for almost 3000 yards his 2nd season.

If you look at Elway's 1st 9 years he had more INTs than TDs and low 70s passing rating. Vick has been far superior in both first 5 years. Elway also averaged about 250 yards rushing. Not Vick-like, but still a lot and I guess more than any NFL guy today not named Vick. The criticism's on Elway his early career was similar too. All cannon no touch, questionable leadership abilities, impatient, can't read defenses, etc. There are major differences--no other players ever have been quite like Vick or Elway, but there are a lot more similarities between Vick and Elway (probably the two best QB athletes ever drafted at #1) than many think.

If we saw Vick play on the Stealers or Broncos (remember Jake Plummer was a "bad QB" until he got there) it would be real interesting to see how he does. Of course I am not saying Vick will progress like Elway as an NFL QB, few to none have, but it is way to soon to believe he won't make a mark in the NFL. He already carried a team to the NFC championship. Way too much is being made of a bad year on a team dissappointing on a number of levels.

 

Tomlinson has played in 21 more games than Vick.

 

I would say SD got the better end of the trade and are the better team right now. They may be the best 9-7 team ever. They had a brutal schedule. They played 5 of the 8 teams in the playoffs right now and beat 4 of them. They also beat the Giants and played 3 9-7 teams.

 

I don't see your point. Do you mean to say that the Chargers have played 21 more games? This can't be right. You meant to say "Vick has been injured more often". If so, then who is to blame because of injuries?

 

here's my problem. when teams stack the line, they beat Vick. when they dare him to pass, he can't. he gets beat that way. that formula has played itself out more than a few times now. that's what i'm seeing. he can be utterly taken out of a game that way. and he has been.

i hear the "he has no receivers/help" argument. and then matt schaub comes in and throws for over 300 yards with 3TD's while Vick is injured.

 

if all you had to do to beat vick is stack the line then he would never win another game.

matt schaub did have a good game they also lost. but hey he had a great game.

 

i'm so glad you're here!

are saying they lost BECAUSE Schaub had a great game?

this is where you lose me pgabriel. teams have players perform exceptionally and have great games...and still lose. on the other hand, teams have players have average or even below-average games and still win. because TEAMS WIN GAMES. Dilfer won a Super Bowl, for heaven's sake! That doesn't make him the greatest QB in the league...it doesn't even make him a good QB. Because he's not. It makes him fortunate to be on a really good team.

 

matt schaub actually has a lower completion percentage than Vick in that game. he only completed 52% of his passes in that game you're referring to.


this is where your dilfer argument doesn't hold water, the falcons are only good with Vick on the field. if they had an above .500 record without Vick then we could disqualify the win factor. even if you count that one game Schaub started and lost, they still were above .500 with Vick on the field.

 

that's a good argument, my friend. the debate lives on.

 

By the Howie Long on ESPN radio just said the comparison I made. He played against Elway. He said he had a cannon but would tuck and run like mad downfield if his 1st reads were not open, and that limited him severly the 1st part of his career. He said later he learned how to stay healthy (run but avoid big hits), use his legs for buying time for the throw as much as to run, and trusting his teammates, and that is when he became undefensable.

And no, I didn't reach Howie's personal line after my post :;

Vick threw for almost 3000 yards his second NFL season. Let's not pretend all he can be is a gloried RB if he is coached right, has the right players/scheme around him, and continues his own personal development as a football player.

 

My guess would be Vick.

Whether he can control his injuries (run less/more careful, train better, etc) or not (freak accidents) matters not.

It all ends up being with him in the end. Same would hold true for LT if he was injured all the time.

 

Hey, its all fun, I don't disagree that Vick should be a better passer, he should, he shouldn't have made the pro bowl. But I do think a good standard to hold them to as a passer would be about 3200 yards, 60 pct. (every qb should strive for that) and about 20 tds to only about 8 picks. and that's assuming his running ability is intact.

 

agreed. sounds right to me. still eating at Eastern??

 

Of course. did you ever think the waiters were rude there? its pretty funny.

 

the shorter guy definitely is.

we used to eat there all the time when my office was over there. they knew what i would order everytime...about 6 months ago i had a meeting over on that side of town and i stopped in for lunch...they came over and welcomed me back like it was some sort of class reunion! nice...but a bit embarassing in that little restaurant. the taller guy is the nicer of the 2.

excellent food.

 

One thing the other thread made me realize is that even though I might not think Vick is overrated, I definitely think Culpepper is underrated. Very underrated. Take this disaster of a year for him, even though he through 12 picks opposed to 6 tds, he was still completing 64% of his passes. He has never been under 60% and he's been starting since he was 23.

His combined rushing and passing stats are crazy. that's the guy vince should be looking at, minus the interceptions and fumbles.

 

yeah, that's sooo true! i think culpepper is incredibly underrated. his numbers were just flat out sick last season. this season, i think, was an anomaly.