[The Vertical] Trade Discussions between 76ers and Hawks centering around Teague and Noel

I like your thinking!

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Huh. Jeff Teague just posted and then deleted a picture on his Instagram, describing surgery for a torn patella in his knee. Huh.</p>&mdash; Chris Towers (@CTowersCBS) <a href="https://twitter.com/CTowersCBS/status/740919337863630848">June 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
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[NBC Sports] Hawks’ Jeff Teague posts he played last season with torn patella tendon, quickly deletes

 

Dear God Cletus.

 

Does DM the GM have any history of dealing w/Brian the Junior?

 

Bryan Colangelo

 

^:grin; DM & Bryan Colangelo:

Spoiler

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: Philadelphia would prefer to trade Jahlil Okafor, not Nerlens Noel <a href="https://t.co/qCbxT5fpo1">https://t.co/qCbxT5fpo1</a></p>&mdash; Kurt Helin (@basketballtalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/status/742341296740700161">June 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Man I really want Noel. Colangelo will regret this. Teague is a dime a dozen player. Noel is going to be a top 3 C in a couple of years.

I was very pessimistic about his career but watching him improve, learn and play I've become really positive about the fact that this is the guy who will come out and guard 2's if needed, outruns every other C, and can easily learn to be a top interior defensive presence.

 

Capela, Kj and a future 1st. Get it done Marley!!!

 

#DanTony #whatisdefense

 

We're trying to get Noel.

 

I slightly disagree on both those assertions.

Teague is fairly above average player and point guard who has All-Star quality. Even being injured last year, he's a good point guard to have on your team, at worst he's a top 10-13 point guard. How many other point guards in the league are giving their team 15 and 6 with competent point guard skills and 40% 3 point shooting. Most of the players who had better number than Teague are pretty much annual all-stars.

If Noel become a top 3 center, he'd basically be an all-star. I see him being an all-star at some point by default, but I don't think he'll be a top 3 center, considering his lack of offensive skill and rebounding. I think he can be a really good center. Though to be fair, he hasn't peak yet. He has loads of potential, like several 76ers players.

 

Okafor has a higher potential, Noel is better defensively. I have trouble seeing noel fit under dantoni but he did play under him. Noel and Capela front court sounds really good

 

Noel is the closest thing we're going to find to a young Amare. He's super quick for a big. Hasn't been the most effective in pick-and-roll as a roller but you've gotta consider his team. He's got the resident tools though with his quickness and hops. And he is developing a nice jump shot clear out to the 3. (I said developing.)

Obviously he's got the defensive tools. Although I wished he'd dominate a little more on the defensive glass.

The biggest concerns I have with Noel are his character and work ethic. From what I've seen of him I don't feel like he's taking the game and his career as seriously as he should. And his off-court decision making has been terrible in Philly. Too much partying and smoking week. Little shades of Larry Sanders that give me trepidation. Will he grow past it or is he going to self-limit or even crater his career? Dunno.

But skills wise and contract wise he's a fit. If we can trade for him and simultaneously clear out a couple long term salaries then he'd be on the books next summer for a very modest cap hold of $10.9 million.

I know many of you will argue, why bother when we've got Capela on a minuscule salary. And just like with Terrence Jones in Dec of 2013, I'm not going to be able to convince you of this next sentence. But Noel is a different class of player from Capela. As time goes on you're going to find Capela struggling to play 5 in small-ball lineups. Whereas Noel is much more suited for that role. We need to trade Capela before he is further exposed this upcoming season, while his trade value is peaking. I'd trade Capela (or whatever pick I could get for him), Beverley, Brewer, and Harrell for Noel, Holmes, Landry, and Covington and never look back.

 

I gotta disagree on both too.

Teague is not going to average those %'s if/when he leaves the Hawks unless it's to the Spurs or Warriors. He's benefitting hugely from playing in a system that makes everyone more efficient. He's playing with smart guys who can pass the ball, spacing, and in a system where movement is king. IMO what we're seeing from Teague is the absolute best he can do, and that's not really impressive. Though at the same time, his salary is reasonable and he's worth what he makes.

Kind of reminds me of Beverley. Not their games, which are very different. Rather the fact that they earn their money and they're players who will produce on the court under the right circumstances.

On Noel, man. Just watch the guy. This guy's biggest problem was that he was going to be shooting 40% from the FT line. He came in shooting 60% two consecutive years and will undoubtedly continue to improve on that. 60% is already enough to negate a hacking strategy.

Today's NBA requires the big man to defend the smaller guys WAY more often. In fact, teams are forcing and milking the mismatch so much that some types of players (especially big burly C's) have become dinosaurs unable to cope. That's where we're headed and you don't just need guys like Noel situationally - you need guys like that on the floor at all times.

In terms of rebounding, Noel was typically defending the faster/quicker big men and that would hurt his rebounding. Still, at 8 rebounds in 29 minutes, he's an above average rebounder. You have to consider the minutes when looking at this. And again, with C's and PF's required to step out more often, ALL big men are seeing their rebounding numbers take a hit. They are simply not at the rim as often as they used to be, and it's still declining. If your guy is out chasing the Anthony Davis' of the world, they're not going to be around the rim as much as they were when they were guarding the Dwight Howards of the NBA.

It's a trade off, and virtually all elite teams in recent history have gone with speed/quickness over physical dominance inside. Having Noel and Capela in the line up - to me - is the equivalent of 1 all star player at least. Those guys would make us god-like with guarding pick n rolls and perimeter drives.

Offensively, I'm happy if he's a great defender, hitting 60% of FT's, 52% of FG's with 2 steals, 2 blocks and 2 assists. You can't have everything, but you can have the right TYPE of player. Noel, Ariza and Beverley would give us a rotation with good defense.

I also happen to think Noel's offense would improve with D'Antoni. He would get a lot more rebounds, open looks and transition points.

 

There is no way we are going to be able to acquire Noel without giving up Capela. Unfortunately for us, the Little Ole Nit Wit preferred to watch our guys get their tails kicked in the first round of the playoffs (one of the three stupidest decisions ever made by this franchise) instead of going to the lottery and getting the 12th pick. So we've got to give up an asset or two to get Noel. And outside of our 2017 pick unprotected, Capela is probably our biggest trade asset.

 

First of all we don't have the assets to trade for Noel.
Also...what about his off court issues? The only thing I have heard is about his house which he completely trashed. I don't know about anything else happening? Brown has been raving about his work ethic (whereas for example MCW and Okafor and Embiid there have been rumblings before that they were lazy). But nothing for Noel.

Anyway, Noel has issues as well. He is bullied by true centers. I don't mean the likes of Gasol but any true C. Also now in his fourth year he hasn't put much muscle yet.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">League sources tell <a href="https://t.co/aPhi5ponKj">https://t.co/aPhi5ponKj</a> that the Celtics' target in trade talks with Philadelphia is Nerlens Noel.</p>&mdash; Brian Geltzeiler (@hoopscritic) <a href="https://twitter.com/hoopscritic/status/745318762857959424">June 21, 2016</a></blockquote>
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This makes a lot of sense, Ainge would love a defensive center with a cheap contract...add Butler and Horford and you are suddenly front runner for Durant.