Steve Francis had accomplished a hell of a lot more in the NBA in December 1999 than Ricky Rubio has (which would be nothing).
San Antonio had no interest in VSpan the player. They had interest in VSpan the contract that they could get buy out for cheap and they took him on to get rid of Butler.
Considering that VSpan ultimately left to go take care of his sick mother in Greece, I don't think he would be in the NBA still even if Adelman was the coach at the time.
Fair enough. Just to be clear, and anyone who wanted to do a search could find this out, I was an early supporter of The Greek. I was pumped that we had acquired the guy and had high hopes (OK, maybe I was high... I can't recall) that finally, finally, we had someone to replace Rafer, who had long since forced me to search out Valium, Xanax, single malt scotch.... whatever would dull the pain of watching Rafer "run" the Rockets. I considered suicide, but couldn't decide on a method. I was too old to join the Coast Guard and fling myself in front of an exploding oil platform in the Gulf. Couldn't fly, or I would have rented a plane and flown it into a sand dune in West Texas. Anyway, I was excited about The Greek. His supporters claim he wasn't given a proper chance, but damn near every chance he was given turned into a muddle, a puddle, a poodle, or a befuddle. My excitement waned. The Greek is not and has never approached the talent Rubio has in his left little toe. Yes, his little toe, the one on the left, not the one on the right, thank you very much. As I've said, I expect Rubio to be a star in the The League if he ever develops the cojones to play where the big boys know how it's done (unless they don't, like Rafer). I've watched a lot of video of Rubio (and Llull, for that matter), and if Morey ever grabs his rights from Minnie, I'll be standing in line, awaiting my chance to cheer. But, it is an undeniable fact that he's yet to lace them up and test his talent here in the NBA. Until he does, while he may be "proven" in Europe, he isn't proven here, which is what counts. Those sceptical of players that have been successful Over There have a very solid basis for their scepticism. Many players of that ilk have failed, or proven to be journeymen after coming here and attempting to play at the highest level. For every Scola and Manu, there are a dozen, two dozen who's names no one can remember. Why? I can't remember. The solution? It is obvious. Sign the entire Argentine national team.
The failure rate of the European players is not different than the failure rate of the US players. I don't know why some people decide that there is a case for Euros not making it when there are great examples of them playing in the NBA, and in some cases dominating in the league. Just as there are journeyman, and flops.... I mean Kwame Brown and Darko Milicic who is worse? It would be interesting to see the true percentages of European players that are drafted and play in the NBA's success rate versus American players. And Rickey Rubio has been praised a ton by people who know a lot more about basketball than anyone in this thread..... DD
Well, I'd like to think that isn't the case or at least is only the case for a select few (the bit about irrationally favoring euros). See, we all know skill trumps anything but the truth I see is people really really want to believe that intelligence/desire is far more important than size/athleticism. And, they really, really want to believe that quick ball movement is more successful than post/iso oriented basketball. International play may remind them of the way they played when they were younger or the right way to play. And, it really is the right way to play...if you don't have guards with blazing speed, wings that can jump out of the gym, and bigs with hulk-like strength. NBA teams are just using what works. It's hard for many to fathom what is winning NBA basketball may not be good basketball anywhere else. You can't teach your 8 year old to iso at the top of the key, rise up over the defender, and throw it down. It's not the international player they love, because that changes every other season, it's the international game. The truth is, a Lebron or Wade iso is a better basketball play than moving the ball around to an open Carlos Arroyo. Some people don't like that truth.
This is definitely true for this message board, which is why you see posters here that are quick to label athletic players as being "dumb" or "knuckleheads" despite the fact that they've already made it in the NBA and have had, depending on the player in question, varying measures of success in the league. We've seen how the intelligence/desire model has worked for the Rockets when players that are supposedly more intelligent and filled with more desire are lacking in the talent, size, and athleticism department.
Poor Kam... I'm not enamored by Rubio, but I don't think he's going to be turrible either. The issues that he has afflict many other PGs at his age. The Rondo comparison is probably most apt: although the freakish athleticism and wingspan are missing, I think Rubio is a smarter player and knows his limitations better. I will say that though I don't agree with jop, it's admirable that he's going out on a limb to say what he thinks. Of course, time will tell if he'll admit to being wrong if that's the way things pan out or just say "well, he never got an opportunity."
This seems to me like another one of those cases (see Kwame's post a couple posts up) where a guy's intelligence is questioned because he's so athletic. What have you seen from Rondo that makes you think he's not a smart player or that he doesn't know his limitations well? The guy has been the best player on the Celtics going back to last year's playoffs. I think he's a very intelligent player and he seems to know his limitations very well.
In my opinion, the last season has been little dissapointing. He has belonged to a team full of european all stars and I think he often has even avoided some of his responsibilities as starting PG and important part of the team. He's young, but was signed as a star, and thinking in the most important games. Definitely he has not played well those games. He played a bad Euroleague F4 (with his backup Sada saving the team), and his ACB playoffs were in general, poorly played. At the finals looked excessively relaxed and confident, in line with the rest of the team, and that costed them the title... the underdog, Caja Laboral (TAU) won the series. As starting PG he failed to react after his first bad games, and was not able to revive the natural spirit of his team, he was far from where a leader should be. It has been missed his lack of aggressiveness towards the basket, he had a very good strecht of games in the middle of the season and it seems like he did put the automatic since then. - Confirmed the improvment on his shooting range (40% 3PT, 43% the before in Joventut). - Cutted his TOs, but stillcan improve (1'8 per game in 20 minutes p.g.) - Defensively has the tools to excel also in the NBA. Has a good frame, good size, long arms, attitude... but still needs to improve the regularity in his toughness, consistency. - Lacked of some scoring instinct, he will never ve a scoring PG but must be a bigger threat. He has the talent and the tools to be more dangerous at the mid-range game, he absolutely needs to work more here, on the 20 footers, he can make them, I think with time he will be very good at it. Not so sure about his 3pt shot off the dribble. Another question mark for his NBA game is his ability to finish around basket. He's definitely FASTER than people thinks, but lack of elevation is surely one of his greatest weaknesses. Still, I trust on him because: he's so young, has a great environment to grow as a player, he's supporting a lot of pressure already, acquiring a lot of experience. He's a smart and mature kid, he's competitive, he's very talented, he has physical tools (great size, good frame, great wingspan, foot speed, great hands, quickness...), and absolutely has some special talent (NOT scoring talent): advanced ball-handling skills, creativity at the p&r, at the transition game, outstanding court vision, craftiness... But if you are expecting the new Magic Johnson, keep waiting, he surely will become one of the better PGs of the league, but not a legend. For the next year (crucial for him), I think he needs to push himself to step up, and he knows that. I'm sure he's aware that he could have been much more aggressive at the end of last season... And he lost the championship, so he should be eager, hungry, for this upcoming season. He must take the next step and become a true leader for his team like he was it for Joventut (and it has been previously for every one of his teams). I'll follow him closely, this year his name must be in the MVP talks, should be a breakout season for him.
I don't think those that aren't enamored with Rubio think he'll be terrible. Maybe a few on this board do, because there are times out there where he just isn't anything special. But I find most, like me, expect Rubio to certainly be able to compete at a high level in the NBA, appreciate his game control at such a young age, his vision, his quick hands and long arms. But you can't look past his faults, and the fact that the NBA has as many good and even great PGs today as I can ever remember. I listed it in my last post, but again, Nash, Williams, CP3, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Kidd, Davis, Billups, Brooks, Jennings, Curry, Evans...the list goes on an on. Even today's average PGs - Calderon, Bibby, Miller, Harris bring unique skill to the table and at some points have been looked at as potential all stars. Moreover, nothing wrong with jopatmc stating his opinion...once, twice, a few times. You know, even a bunch of times...that's fine. But by now, put it in your signature and post about him where meaningful. While this thread may have started meaningfully (after all, we do now actually get a shot to watch Rubio play against the best), jop's been riding his dick so much it's annoying. And made moreso by his appearance in multiple threads about getting players that have no relation to Rubio and throwing Rubio in the discussion. We weren't 8 posts into this thread before he did it again: what? ok. And finally, to continue to talk him up to the degree he has is borderline crazy. Magic, Bird good. Multiple championship potential. Multiple all-star game potential. It's just crazy.
As were Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, Michael Olawokandi, etc. Rubio's got some skills and seems to have great court sense. I think he'd do well in the NBA if he ever shows up here. The violent reaction in this thread wasn't about Rubio's abilities as much as it was about Jopatmc's readiness to put him in the Hall of Fame alongside Magic and Oscar.
There's a difference between "good" and MJ/Oscar/Magic dominant, esp. when the guy in question hasn't even played an NBA game yet. LOL 19 years old and he has as much impact as those guys in their prime? Rubio's better than team USA combined and will win more rings than Kevin Durant? I like Rubio a lot too but the OP took it to another level. He made goodbug and rock4ever look like they hate Kobe's guts.
DD, you don't have to pay any attention to what I say, but a suggestion for you: Please stop questioning the motives of people who disagree with you. More than anyone else I can think of, seems like you throw discussions off track by doing this. Not everyone who completely disagrees with you (or doesn't entirely agree with you) has a bias. You are wrong quite a bit and others have good reason for not seeing things your way. Ironically, I find you among the most biased members of the forum and here you go trying to throw that on others in a very broad way. Do you know what that is called? Lastly, jopatmc said Ricky Rubio will rank up there with Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson & MJ (who are top 5-10 NBA players of all time). Do you "100% agree" with that?
