The US bombing its own guns perfectly sums up America’s total failure in Iraq

No, you and your buddies should NOT go back. There was not a good reason for us to be there in the first place, we should not even consider sending troops back in my lifetime.

 

Sidestep. How many of your fellow servicemen do you think should die to achieve a number appropriate for this war? Please quantify a "normal" count of deaths and maimings.

Also, saying previous service members have died in vain because Iraq falls back into chaos is fallacious. Their previously achieved objectives are not suddenly erased or un-achieved. Saddam will not magically reappear into a position of power.

The "we have committed too many lives to stop now" is the mentality that perpetuates violence between Israel and Palestine. "Remember Yael!" or "Remember Youssef!" as they send hundreds more to fight. As a nation "moderating peace" between those two, I'd like to think we won't succumb to the same lapse in judgement.

We don't have to go back to "fix what we broke." Saddam was removed, billions were spent setting up a new government and providing equipment, facilities and infrastructure. Iraq had an election, then they asked us to leave. The onus of responsibility is on the Iraqi government's shoulders.

I would rather have service members at home, and not to peddle about in a garrison, but as construction supervisors, IT professionals and EMTs. There's plenty to "fix" at home, and the ability to make effective decisions under duress is a marketable skill, not to mention all the other training and college funding the military promises recruits.

So, if you'd please answer the initial question, which you conveniently ran and hid from, I'd appreciate it.

 

Perhaps that's just where we disagree. We made the mess, we should clean it up. You can argue that you don't think we should have been there in the first place, and that's fine, but it's not really relevant either. We were there, we did make the mess, we ought to clean it up.

I don't have the actual number, but I can guarantee you, it's a lot higher than 500 a year.

Actually that's exactly what happens. When Iraq falls into chaos after so much work was done to stabilize it, those previously achieved objectives are erased.

That's not it at all, and honestly you are so far off base, I'm not going to waste my time explaining all of the reasons why you are off base. There is no parallel whatsoever between the US in Iraq and the Palestinian-Israeli nonsense.

We spent that money setting up the government, providing equipment, facilities, and infrastructure, then left it in the hands of essentially toddlers. We should have protected our investment by sticking around till the new government was strong enough to stand on their own rather than abandoning them just because they thought they were strong enough. There's not many people that thought they'd succeed after we left, pretty much everyone knew we left too soon.

Are you under the impression that soldiers go "home" to other jobs when they aren't on deployment? Do you think all of the military is the reserves or national guard?

 

It is basically a Superfund site at this point. The rule of thumb is that COIN is only even remotely reasonable on a place you want to keep. You don't invest your life savings to remodel your neighbor's house.

In a quasi stable semichaotic system, the very act of trying to manipulate it can send in into out of control oscillation. The natural inclination is to try and If you really want it to return to equilibrium, you have to step away, endure a few wild swings of the variables, and pray to God that you haven't pushed it so far out of whack that it won't eventually return to quasi stability.

Trying to grasp it and hold it is essentially doubling down on stupid. You just make more likely to lose stability.

The most readily apparent example I can think of is the discarded practice of introducing new species to an ecosystem. No matter how good the intentions, it always results in the ecosystem spiraling way out of control.

 

The snakes on Guam disagree...

 

had to google that

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/two-thousand-mice-dropped-guam-parachute-kill-snakes-f2D11685572

 

The story I heard was that one of the reasons the snakes were introduced was because of a rodent problem circa WWII.

 

The mongoose on Maui to get rid of the rodents backfired. The mongoose is active during the day, the rodents at night. (continuing thread diversion )

 

Well is it really a failure for some of the folks running the country to have to bomb to destroy other weapons we made?

Hey, it does increase the profits from the defense industry.

When all is said and done we often supply the weapons on both sides of a war.

 

The rodents in that story are already dead before being dropped. Its not so much introducing a new species as introducing a new buffet style restaurant for snakes.

 

They needed to introduce gorillas into the mix to eat the snakes. Then, when winter comes, the gorillas simply freeze to death. It's called the perfect plan.

 

Sharp thinking! How do they make it freeze in Guam?