You are comparing him to two of the best 4 centers of all time in NBA history, which is unfair. He is a really good center, but not one of the GOAT's My point is that he creates open shots for teammates if he is doubled and if he is not doubled he scores. If he gets fouled he makes the free throws. Yes, he has faults...he is slow and he is not quick enough to jump to get tons of boards. But he IS one of the top 2 centers in the league and that has nothing to do with the revenue that he does bring to the team. Up tempo basketball doesn't work in the playoffs. Look at the Spurs, Heat, Lakers, Celtics (well, they play both ways). In the playoffs, up-tempo teams lose in 7 game series. Just look at the Suns. Look at TEAM USA before they changed their style of play... Guess we can agree to disagree, but if I was an NBA GM I would want Yao over any center in the NBA not named Dwight Howard
Stupid Post by Stupid People First of all, when Ron Artest played for the Pacers, they were second best team in the East behind Pistons. I wouldnt say they were contender, but they could play with any team in the league. JO, Al Harrington, Miller and Ron. And they had a very decent coach. They are better than what you think. Second, Can you name any other STARTING CENTERs would give you about 20pts, 9rbs and 2assits every night? The other thing is, Yao only take 10-13 shots in every game, and he will give you 25-30 pts. If I remember correctly, he is not even making the top dollar in the NBA. Many players make more than him, but produce less. So what is your point? If Yao is 6 foot 6 and American, he still can play in the NBA.
i agree with most of the original post. it's a good analysis of how the rockets stand as of now. however, i do believe the rockets will make the playoffs and will be a strong playoff team. but i highly doubt they'll be a championship contender anytime soon. adding artest hasnt put us over the top. but its more likely that we'll be able to sign him as doc rocket (?) has hinted he'll sign for 13mil a year. that's probably why we didnt trade him. trading rafer would definitely hurt our chances as he knows the team and the players inside out. he sucks offensively, but he's above average in everything else. as for tmac? it seems to me that tmac doesnt want to play for the rockets anymore. best bet is trade him for someone next year who'll put us over the top (most likely VC).
"5. Ron Artest was/is overrated. Artest averaged decent amount of points on a horrid Kings team, and a below average pacers team, who only had success because they were in a horrid eastern conference." I guess that's why he won the defensive player of the year award? I guess that's why he had a career high in almost every category when he was with the Kings? I guess that's why he almost singlehandly beat us and stopped our streak? (When Novak his the game winning 3ptner) The bottom line is, he's not making star's money and he gives you more than the stats when he's on the team. Yes he doesn't seem like he fits the offense but any chemistry takes time for the reaction to work. You can't say he's overrated because if anything he's underrated consider the skillset he has for the money he's making. " I have seen many threads today, mostly negative, some positive. None have really touched on the reality of the past week however. I would just like to shed some light on the reality of the state of our franchise, and where we are headed. 1. You WILL be kicking yourselves by watching how much success Rafer will have in orlando. Face it, that system in orlando is perfect for Rafer. Rafer's style isn't really throw it down to Yao, and spot up for an open shot. Rafer's style is to run and create things on the fly. His ball handling and passing ability will be utilized to the max, and I think he will almost be an upgrade to Nelson to everything but scoring. He can hit the big shot at the end better than Nelson, but aside from that Nelson brought more to the table to scoring, but to create easier scoring opportunities for his opponents? Rafer does that. The style of the rockets offense (if you call it a style really, we dont have much of one) was swing it back and forth, set, reset with yao, and find the open guy off the double team. Almost no use for a point guard. With the Magic, it will be running, gunning, creating things on the fly, and having a group of athletic guys and a spot up shooter in the wing. He will be able to run very well and although his numbers might not show it, you will see the Magic make a case at being the second best team in the east (behind the celtics) and watch them make a push in the playoffs. 2. We might not make the playoffs. I am not saying we aren't, and im not saying its highly likely, but with tracy going down and Rafer leaving, it really hurt our chances of having a guaranteed spot. We are only a few games above the 9th place team right now. This has more to do with the rest of the west more than us actually. First, Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets- they aren't going anywhere. Second, Suns Jazz and Hornets- are going to be red hot for the next few months. Why? The suns are running their old offense, it works, they still won't do much in the playoffs, but they are going to win a lot more games in the regular season now. The Jazz are about to be fully healthy, and they have found a star in millsap, they are going to be very scary the second half of this season. The Hornets- finally paul is stepping up and showing why he is the best pg in the league, retaining chandler is a blessing in disguise and i think this puts a spark under the hornets team, they won't be as surgent as the jazz or suns, but they will be much improved from the first half. That leaves us, blazers, and mavs for the last 3 spots. The mavs will be more consistent than us, the blazers have much more talent, so we might be the odd man out. 3. Rick Adelman is not the best choice for OUR team Do not bring up his past success, because he is having to change his scheme for Yao. Adelman is a solid coach, but not for a slow paced, not much motion offense. Last year we had a mixture of Van Gundys defense and Adelmans altered offense and high emotion running through players. We have little emotion, van gundys defense is a thing of the past, and the altered offense, well its doing exactly what it did last year...not much... 4. Love him or hate him- We needed a healthy McGrady The only way I saw this year working out, was having everyone healthy. Most importantly McGrady. I am not going to get into all the events of the past week or how he has played this year, lets assume he was injured. So prior to this year, here are some of hte duties he has fufilled for us and they are now vacant with him sitting out. Who is going to hit the last minute shot? Who will bring a little swagger to our offense? (whether it be a big dunk over someone, or a clutch shot in someones face, or a few big 3s down the stretch) Which player is going to step up, and actually have his voice carry weight, when the going gets tough? What is the one special thing that we would have that not other teams in the nba can match? (his driving ability along with his jump shot, and hitting big shots down the stretch, as well as not being a defensive liability and being able to distribute the ball) Hate to break it to yall, but prior to this season- he was a main reason why we had a chance every season, not our supporting cast, not yao (who hardly played) it was tracy, im not saying u have to love him, but he was vital to our success. 5. Ron Artest was/is overrated. Artest averaged decent amount of points on a horrid Kings team, and a below average pacers team, who only had success because they were in a horrid eastern conference. He is risky on defense, meaning he will come up with the ball more, but also take a risk and get blown by for an easy bucket. (Battier's defense is more valuable due to the fact his goal is to make sure his guy doesnt score, and he does that better than anyoen in the nba, the problem is there isnt a stat to impress all of you with) He has poor decision making, he doesn't do anything on offensive that is exceptional, he is risky on defense, his leadership...well... thats a different story. And most importantly, he will be gone soon. 6. The biggest reason, which isn't apparent to a lot of you, that we have not had success the past 5 years or so, and won't have success, is staring right at you- It is 7'6- and his name is Yao Ming First, Offense: He is above average on offense. He shoots very well for a big guy and has a high FG%. The problem? He might create open shots for everyone, but he also stuff the lane for everyone making our team very predictable when he is in the game-and when he is out, we must change our game completely. In order for him to be successful the offense must be run through him. When he misses? fast break for two on the other end. He cannot get back on D unless there is a little break for him to get down the court. He doesn't get offensive rebounds, hes turns the ball over so much, he is a decent athlete for his size, but possibly the worst athlete in the league when compared to the rest of the nba. Defense: He is a HUGE defensive liability. A team can simply erase his offensive prescence by driving to him in the 1st quarter and getting him in foul trouble. He is not a good shotblocker (although the past few games he has been betteR) he is not good at sticking with his man, and most importantly, any half way decent athlete can blow right by him. Transition defense? absolutely nonexistent. Overall: He is not built for the NBA. He cripples what the rest of our team can do. He makes every player on his team change their game, against a fast paced team we are playing 4v5. He even admits it (see all star game). Now if I were to tell you to read number 6, not knowing it was Yao Ming, and to ask you if you wanted him to be our starting center you would laugh and say no. So you might ask, why do we keep him? If you guessed $$$ your a winner. And that is the sad thing, until he retires, we are stuck with him. Until we are stuck with him, we are stuck with an above average team at best that will never make things interesting in the playoffs. He has great character and I like the guy, but he's a few decades too late for the NBA. David Stern and Les love what he brings to the game- but its more what he brings money wise. If Yao Ming were american he would not be the rockets starting center. Guaranteed. 7. We are approaching a rebuilding period. A long one. We are going to try and rebuild around Yao, we will find the same success we have had in the past, one in done, maybe 2nd round, but other than that talented teams in the nba are going to run all over us (read #6). The reason why I say a long one, we will have a mini rebuilding period with Yao, then a true one after Yao leaves. The next rockets team to play in the finals will not have one player, or coach, from our current roster. Its going to take much time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am a huge rockets fan, have been forever, and will continue to support them. I just wanted to let you all know what I feel like we are about to face. If you have a response, make it an educated response, you can disagree with me, just back it up with some sort of evidence, don't just make a claim like "your negative" or "(enter tracy nickname here) ruined us" or "your an idiot." I want to talk basketball, I want to talk educated basketball, if you want to talk like a 5 year old, enter any of the other threads dominating this forum." Yao might be slow but do u realized how many opponents we have forced to become a jump shooting team rather than playing the paint? My guess is that u haven't watched many. Why were we one of the best defensive team in recent years? It's because we have Yao in the middle to clot up the paint and Shane to guard the opponent's premier scorer. Yao doesn't jump to get the rebound. He box out his defender (who is often the best rebounder in the opposing team) and defer it to his teammate. The reason why DHO usually played bad against Yao because Yao keeps his body on him to prevent he gets off the ground. Yao is one of the main reason why we are one of the best rebounding team in the league and there are two ways to achieve that. You can have a freak of nature aka D.Ho whom is almost unstoppable in rbs because he's so athletic and big. Or you can play a team game and simply just box out the opponents. To say Yao's a defensive liability and not able to stop fast break. Can you name ONE CENTER that can STOP FAST BREAKS? I don't even think a prime Dream can catch up with A.I. or Kobe in an open court. Yao is the main reason why our opponents often becomes a jump shooting team. Yes, he can become a defensive liability when he has to guard the likes of Al Jefferson or Mehmet Okur who both have a really good mid range jumpers. The thing is, would you rather have a center who gives up dunks nights in and out or the one that gives up jumpers? I most definitely would live with the jumpers because I KNOW and EVERYONE knows (EXCEPT YOU) that Yao's shots around the basket > any of the above in a long run. The addition of Ron solidify our perimeter defense and we are suppose to be a better defensive team than before since we can play rob and robin with Shane and Ron on guarding the best. If you have watched some rockets game you would've noticed how the injuries on Shane and Ron had regressed their defense. (Both are ankle injuries) A good defensive player doesn't necessary needs the good hands to knock the ball out of their opponents' hands but more often they have the quick legs to stay in front of their defenders at all time. Gawd, do i really have to keep going at you on this? Please don't create any more useless threads because you are basically wasting others' braincells. Not just we have to read your dumb post but we have to explain to you why you're dumb? Ahhhhhhhhhhhh
Yeah i want you to talk EDUCATED basketball too. Unfortunately the amount of rockets game you have watched can be count by one hand.
Scola runs well, and fast-breaking fits his style very, he plays very good D, has more charges this year than Battier(though injured), and is athletic enough for his spot. No, he is not Portland PF athletic but totally consistent for his spot. Actually, Duncan and Garnet are just like Hakeem in that they are PF's playing Center roles in their offenses.
I agree with most of what you said above, but I think people were taken aback by the Yao comments. He is a very good player, but he's dubbed a superstar b/c he's 7'6" and the first Chinese to play in the states. He gets more attention internationally than any other basketball player b/c of those two attributes. I think Alston will fare better in Orlando. He is not a catch and shoot PG. We need someone like Kenny Smith back in the day. His job was to throw it down to Hakeem, and wait for the kickback, and then make open shots. Alston doesn't do that. He has the ability and the creativity, esp on fast breaks, to create shots for others. However, we do not run as a team when Yao is on the court, which is 30-35 min a game. Thus, Alston's game really isn't utilized here. I agree we need a healthy t-mac to make it far in the playoffs. Although we want to believe that wafer and create shots, take it to the hole, and that artest can take over games when needed, the reality is probably that they can't. a healthy tmac can do those things, make things happen when the rest of the team is struggling, play well in a half court offense, play good defense when needed, etc. The coach's motion doesn't fit well b/c of Yao... b/c he's a better back to the basket post up player than a facing the basket Brad Miller type of center. But more importantly, I think we've gone away from the JVG style type defense... in the past 2 games, we've gone back to that a bit, and the results have been obvious. That being said, I think Lowry does a decent job of what we need him to. I think you mentioned that our offense doesn't need a real PG anyway. Therefore, Brooks should be fine to dump in the ball to Yao. He'll be ready for the kickout 3's. Lowry should be able to play good D, something that rafer was decent at, but struggled against quicker PG's like Paul and Parker. So I don't think we need to panic at all... a healthy Tmac not being around is a much bigger issue than losing rafer alston
Then can you tell me who you prefer as our start center？ I wonder whether you really know about basketball? Or you are simpley a Yao hater?
"if yao were american then he wouldn't be our starting center" That's the dumbest thing i ever heard! I guess Shawn bradley was 2nd string because he's american. They put him in there so he can get dunked on. Rockets have had some set backs but they will make the play-offs. They have great role players. I trust them to take us past the 2nd round! T-mac can get out of the second round sitting on the bench this year. Unless he's t-mac then he's useless.
Wow! Talking about hatred, it exists right here in Houston. Did Oden start in a very good team? Big Z? hmm? The claim that Yao is the main reason for Rox's failure is just laughable. Dumbest post of the year so far.
yeah sure, yao is the reason we always lose, i mean i love when the coach sits him , the rockets always have played better when hes on the bench ( sarcasm off) saying that yao is the reason of our failure is wrong, its the same as saying its T macs fault the rockets havent passed the 1st round of the playoffs. the reality is that its the first time houston actually had a team with a chance of reaching a nba final. we had the stars and very solid role players, the problem is mcgrady didnt show up this year, artest is inconsistent ( so is the team) and yao sometimes seems like the best center in the league while other times.......... on paper the full healthy roster of the rockets is great to bad it doesnt reflect on the court
I think to become a true contender we still have a ways to go. However, a lot of people will be happy with a second round appearance. I just want the team to play hard until the end. We'll see what happens after that.
Oh thou art the harbinger of truth! What happens in Orlando is more or less irrelevant to the Rockets. That's great if Rafer experiences success there but that has little to do with the Rockets now. I'll personally take our chances. From what we've seen of the team this year, they've given me a measure of confidence that they can take care of business sans McGrady. Of course the recent trade IS an unknown, so we'll see how we do with the shift at PG. But, based upon performance so far, especially in the midst of injury, adversity, and circus drama, the Rockets have shown great fortitude. They haven't strung together any huge win streak but neither have they slid down a nasty losing streak either. They've cracked against lesser teams and showed up greatly against better teams. You seem to give other teams the benefit of the doubt that they'll perform to the best of their potential, how about the same for the hometown boys? That leaves us, blazers, and mavs for the last 3 spots. The mavs will be more consistent than us, the blazers have much more talent, so we might be the odd man out. Again, neither here nor there. He IS our coach, and he is also one of the better ones in the league. Where the team currently is, considering the revolving door of injuries, he's done a superb job, IMO. Secondly, the correct answer is NOT to fire Adelman and get another coach. Coaches are too often the scapegoat for too many other problems that are out of their control. Swagger to our offense? Take the big shot? This is the cult of sportscenter speaking, and the rugged superstar mentality that dominates the NBA. This is why I love Morey's approach - people have the idea that so-and-so is such a clutch guy but when you look at the numbers, they come through roughly 25% of the time in last-second shot opportunities. But that 1/4 of the time that they succeed shows up on sportscenter without fail, and given enough volume of last second shots, they have this reputation of being clutch. And I'm not even talking about McGrady yet. This is simply my speculation, but I believe had McGrady not participated in this season AT ALL, we would be where we are, and then some. I think the team concept that is central to both Morey as a GM and Adelman as a coach is starting to take root, and that means that the total becomes much greater than the sum of the individual parts. I'm also the one who started the thread - "The Myth: We need McGrady in the playoffs" because ... well, I don't think it's true. My observation, starting from last year's streak, was that things came together better because McGrady wasn't playing and he came back with a willingness to adapt to a team-centered concept. As the streak grew on, the old habits began to return (I'm the man, this team needs me to carry them). If the case is that we live or die by McGrady ... guess what? We die. I'll take another route.... Overrated, underrated, who cares? Just like any other player he's got his strengths and liabilities. His strengths include aggressiveness defensively, and assertiveness offensively. His liabilities include poor shot selection and the off-kilter, unexpected behavior. If the team is able to manage and minimize his weaknesses, he has a lot to offer to the Rockets. Whether he is here next year or not is a question for later, but it doesn't matter too much at the moment. We've got one of the most active general managers in the league who's got a board full of targets. Whether or not Artest walks doesn't matter too much - Morey has his favorites (undervalued efficient players) that he's always looking for anyway. I think a lot of people in this thread have already address this well. You characterize his offensive game close enough. But I think that just like Jordan's Bulls seemed to have a bit more problems with the Rockets when they met up (due to Olajuwon / Maxwell), there are teams in this league that have real problems against a guy like Yao, and there are other teams that are able to exploit some of his weaknesses. The key for the staff is to develop a robust enough offense that can handle various defensive strategies, and I think this has improved over the last two years under Adelman. Fronting has given Yao less problems then before. And due to Ming's diligence (he may be less athletic than most of the league but he far outclasses the majority of players when it comes to work ethic - his own teammates have commented on this quite a bit), I think his game will continue to evolve and improve - probably not at a revolutionary rate, but enough to minimize weaknesses and exploit his height, strength and touch. Also an important thing for Yao is his mentality. It's a strange transformation that happens in those games where he gets dunked on. It's like the fire turns on and it becomes personal for him at that point. If he could find a way to operate with that intensity day in day out -- I think the talk about his athleticism would be silly. By the way, transition defense has more to do with the team's preparation and mentality rather than Yao's presence in the offense. That's a non-sequitor. They struggled with Battier hurt at the beginning of the season, but he helps keep everyone's head in the game defensively. Defensively -- Rockets for a number of years have been a top ranked defensive team. Yao has been the center all of those years. Yeah, he's not Olajuwon, and he's not Dikembe, but he's not a "HUGE defensive liability" either. As others have pointed out, the transition defense poke for a center is silly. I think this is another myth : having "long rebuilding periods..." I think in every sport, teams can operate at a very high caliber for a number of years if they have a very good owner and front office. But, I don't think we're anywhere close to "rebuilding" ... One thing that I worry about is that I think rosters benefit from continuity, so as much as I am a fan of Morey's ways ... we've been in constant morphing with our roster. Even though I am wary of that, I bring that up to counter your point - our roster is always being built. Rebuilding has to do with when your owner throws in the towel and is more committed to cutting costs than anything else, and your GM's job is just a job and not his passion. Then you can expect a stagnant decade. I don't think either of those describe the Rockets. I give you an "A" for effort, but "C-" for content. Your average is a B, that's not too bad I guess.
Let the stupid kid alone,he is just upset. He loved T-MAC so much and Tracy let him down. He just want comfort himself a little by blaming Morey Rick and Yao. I am waiting for the MAVs game. GO ROCKETS
I'd be happy for Rafer if he has success in Orlando. We'll see them in the finals, if they make it that far.
OP do you actually watch Rockets games? or just read box scores and watch t-mac highlights on youtube? How these t-mac fans can argue its yao's fault is a mystery.. he works hard and goes out there and plays. You try and preach that you have a high knowledge of basketball yet the facts seem to prove you wrong. Following most of the posts here you claim you don't need a good center but you need a good PF... the positions arn't that different, just depends on the team. You try and say history proves your case but back in order I give you KG, TD, Shaq, TD, Rasheed and Big Ben, TD, Shaq... really every team in the last 20 years had a good big man except for the team that had the greatest player of all time.
