DaDa - the Qu'ran is not a source. It is well accepted by scholars and Orientalists that Muhammad was illiterate. This was never disputed except for a nonsensical claim by Ibn Ishaq, charging that Muhammad was indeed literate due to the many letters he wrote during his lifetime. The hadith and classical texts point this resoundingly false, as during every occurrence, he dictated to a scribe. The charge that Muhammad was indeed literate was never even made by his non Muslim contemporaries. That Muhammad was illiterate was accepted as a fact by the classical scholars (Ibn Kathir, Ibn Taymiyyah, etc. al) and also by Orientalists, some of which include present day Karen Armstrong, John Espito, and the late Martin Lings. That Muhammad was illiterate is really not disputed. The argument that proponents of Islam seem to have focused upon throughout history is that the Quran was copied from Christian sources. This claim is also easily disproved as Christianity was almost completely nonexistant in Makkah. Christian presence was confined to only 3 locations - the tribes of Al-Heerah in the northeast near Iraq, the Roman occupied kingdom of Bani Ghassan in the northwest, and the Abyssinian ruled Yemen, all far away from Makkah. Also, there was no Arabic translation of the Bible until 3 centuries after Muhammad's death. Had he access to the Christian scriptures, would he not have quoted them, being in dire need to challenge his opponents? There are only two reported encounters of Muhammad with a Christian, both of which are cited by Karen Armstrong and Martin Lings, to cite some present day sources. At the age of 12, he met a Syrian monk during a trip with his uncle on a trade caravan to As-Sham. The other instance was when his wife brought him to her relative Waraqah, a Christian convert, for reassurance after Muhammad's claims of revelation. Waraqah died shortly thereafter but revelation continued for 23 more years.
Nice to see that our tsunami dollars went to such a lovely group of people. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4618595.stm
Singapore canes as well. Personally, I have no problem with it at all. This isn't one of those instances where a woman is caned for driving a car. Gambling is illegal here as well as in Aceh. The main difference is that we do not cane while they do. We impose capital punishment while most of Europe does not. You know the law, you know the punishment. If you violate it willingly, you'll have a red arse. As stated above, I have no problem with it at all. Cane on.
So, you have no problem with this? http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailnational.asp?fileid=20050626.A03&irec=2
Here's an interesting bit of trivia: http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-05/04/article04.shtml
That doesn't make it correct. If you understand that you do harm to yourself in the act of harming another, and that violence always leads to more violence, etc., I don't think you can support it.
Gwayneco that is one of the most shortsighted statements. You do realize that prior to the tsunami opinion polls in Indonesia the US was looked upon favorably by something like 20% of the population. This in the World's most populous Muslim country in a vitally strategic region and with a major branch of Al Qaeda active. I just saw a recent poll that says that 79% of Indonesians opinion of the US has approved because of all of the help we gave them. Tsunami aid is exactly they type of winning hearts and minds that the Admin. talks about, not to forget basic human decency.
Sorry, but you are going to have to tell me how the heck this has ANYTHING to do with "The Truth about Islam". It seems like you just throw a bunch of articles that portray individual Muslims in a bad light and want to somehow relate that to "Islam" as a religion. You are doing a terrible job at it too, btw. Yes, a large portion of jailed people in France are of Arab origin. Arabs in France (as far as socially/economically) are the equivelant of Blacks in America as a large minority. Blacks also make up about half of all jailed persons in the USA. Is that too attributed to Islam, or is it only a matter of their socio-economic condition? Weird thing is that the average Arab-American (or even Muslim-American if you like) is more highly educated, and earns significantly more income, than his/her fellow Americans. Go figure!
Funny, I haven't heard you complain much about how your tax money is being used to finance horrible regimes/states that kill, torture, and violate basic human rights. Just don't bother making a donation to the Tsunami Relief (or any other cause) if you don't feel like helping out "such a lovely group of people". Or, just don't pay your taxes all together so you don't have to contribute to "those" people, because God knows I don't approve of many, many things my tax money is being spent on.
You misunderstood him, he didn't mean that we shouldn't have paid Tsunami relief to everyone, just "those people" who happen to be Muslims.
Are these the hearts and minds we want to win? http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1726632,00.html Well, I'm sure the bastards got what they deserved. They were probably going to use that rubber do all sorts of nasty things to a Koran.
Still relevant.... Islam in South-East Asia Here's what I find interesting: Other analysts attribute the region's religious revival—or at least the most extreme form of it—to the increasing influence of foreign Muslims. For decades, rich Gulf Arabs have paid for South-East Asian students to study Islam in its Arab heartland.... The Cambodian Islamic Development Council, a Muslim NGO, estimates that at least 10% of local Muslims now follow the puritanical Wahhabi sect, thanks to aggressive Saudi Arabian proselytising. On May 28th, Cambodian authorities charged an Egyptian and two Thais with plotting terrorist attacks in Phnom Penh for Jemaah Islamiah.... Most of the latter, it turns out, were persuaded to join the jihad only after they had arrived at Islamic boarding schools in Pakistan or the Middle East. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan.... Nice to see that our foreign aid dollars went to such a lovely group of nations. Are we fighting a War on Terror or a War for the Status Quo?
The ironic things is that guys like Gwayneco and Giddyup are playing right into Osama Bin Ladin's hands. OBL's rhetoric and base of support comes from claiming that the US really hates Islam and wants to make a war on Islam. All this stuff bashing Islam and Muslims just makes Bin Ladin's support get stronger.
I heard that giddyup posts on the Clutch BBS were the third most popular reason for joing al Queda, falling between "An American bomb killed my family!" and "The girl I like joined and I wanted to spend more time with her."
Can you show me where I have bashed Muslims and Islam in a way that even mainstream Muslims and Islamists have not? I await your proof or your apology...
Invisible Fan, This article is DEAD ON! It is absolutely no secret to many, many Muslims living around the world that the Saudis are very active (and have been for decades btw, this is not something new) in promoting Wahhabism around the world. They have succeeded for the most part, sadly, in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In SE Asia, they are yet to complete their mission, but unless the Indonesians, the Malaysians, and other governments in the region refuse to allow the Saudis to sponsor Islamic centers/mosques in those countries that preach the Saudi form of Islam, it is probably not far-fetched that 20 years from now, the largest democracy in the Muslim world (Indonesia) will have fallen victim to this brand of Islam. You know, what can you do? That's just how things work: the Saudis have the most money, they are VERY aggressive in sponsoring religious centers (as well as publications and preachers) to make sure that their brand of Islam spreads around the world. It is absolutely a danger not just to the Muslim world at large, but also right here in the USA, Europe, and the West in general. Their petro-dollars finance a lot of things, and extremism is on the top of their list. So yes, that's a major problem, but how will it be addressed as long as they have the money and capacity to finance major Islamic universities/schools around the world and insist that Wahhabism is taught as the "real" Islam? That's something not just America, but the whole world needs to answer AND confront.
