Oh my God, someone brought up a religious text not related to Islam in a thread about religion! How could they?
http://www.watchingamerica.com/alwatansa000001.html Wake Up Arabs! America is Not the Enemy! While Americans are out saving Arabs from themselves and building a better life through knowledge and hard work, all Arab nations can do, either due to 'stupidity or the lack of brains altogether,' is complain of an, 'American Zionist conspiracy that aims to destroy their nonexistent power.' By Nadine Al-Baydar (A Saudi writer). Edited By Rob Gibran June 9, 2005 Al-Watan - Original Article (Arabic) Translation provided by “The blood and money of the non-believer is a legitimate target. Some people talk of pious Muslims and describe them as extremists, Islamic separatists, or terrorists. Such talk is an insult to the Muslim faith.” My brother repeated the above sentences in an attempt to memorize them. Then he said, “How could murder and theft be crimes, yet at the same time be taught in our school’s curriculum?” I tried to explain to him that we are going through a stage of educational reform, and that it will not be long before expressions such as these are taken out of the curriculum. He asked why, if the study program is to be reformed, must he waste years memorizing its contents? A few days later, my brother’s teacher asked the class to write a paper on what they think of the curriculum, and my brother pointed out the above-mentioned phrases. The teacher mocked his paper and discarded it, while he paid attention to and praised other papers that discussed the schoolbook’s spelling and grammatical errors. My brother then said to me: “Apparently you didn’t understand that what was actually intended was a linguistic reform!” On another day, my brother came back from school with a different idea. “Our teacher assures us that America is the enemy and that we have to hate and boycott it,” he said. I gazed at the walls of his room and asked him: “You want to boycott America like your teacher told you to?” He bobbed his head up and down in agreement. So I said: “Then take down all these posters of famous wrestlers and rock stars, stop wearing your American-style clothes, quit watching their movies, toss out your personal computer, change your Western-inspired haircut, and replace your way of living that is so taken by the American culture with something else… He immediately interrupted me: “Come on, sis, I was only joking!” — Saudi Television: Egyptian Historian Zaynab Abd Al-'Aziz: 'Vatican Told U.S. to Carry Out 9/11,' May 26, 00:04:35, MEMRI It is not just my brother who is only joking, but it is all Arab peoples who have a bland sense of humor when they declare their hatred for America and their decision to be free of Western culture. That is because there isn’t an Arab or Muslim person who can survive without the products of American culture. And how could they, when Arab nations are to this day nations of consumers and not producers, nations who do nothing to encourage their citizens to be creative, and nations who never created the right environment for innovation. These are nations that are more inclined to procrastination and dependence; nations who are fighting a war against terror while their curricula recommend just the opposite. These are nations whose citizens’ thoughts are filled with a naive pride in the glories of an ancient past. A past that has been written and rewritten in countless books, and made and remade into dozens of historical movies and TV dramas filled with bloody battles that are endlessly repeated, bombarding the sight and hearing of the Arab citizen from cradle to the grave. These are nations whose vast imagination has woven stories (due to either stupidity or the lack of brains altogether) of an American Zionist conspiracy that aims to destroy their nonexistent power. This is similar to their imaginary amounts of wealth that the West allegedly desires to seize through the colonization of their region. But they have a deep faith that their power will one day be restored to its old, ancient glory, and that they will return to exercise the global role that America is playing today. Countless thoughts and dreams have wasted precious Arab time, while the realistic Western citizen has been busy implementing feasible plans that contribute to the improvement of his society and to adding the latest theories, discoveries and inventions to the library of world knowledge. A quick comparison between the products of Arab cinema - with rare exceptions - and their Western counterparts which take into full account that discerning minds will be watching, is enough to reflect the truth of our Arab reality versus the Western reality that we despise. If we did some research to find out the number of places for entertainment in the Arab world, we would find that it is many orders of magnitude larger than the number of factories or places of learning. The Arab citizen is a hardcore entertainment junky whose brain leans toward intellectual and scientific stagnation. If you were to look for the majority of Arabs in any tourist country, you would only find them sitting in cafes, watching each other and boasting to one another. Some might be found quenching their thirst at the local pub, before returning to the homeland to put on an impersonation of a pious hermit, and start preaching from their holier-than-thou pulpits. As long as the Arab individual has not yet achieved a level of knowledge and sophistication that would enable him to be selective of what he receives from the outside world, he then is in need of a guide who can steer him in this age of globalization and the blurring of identities, before the waves of civilization throw him on the beach of backwardness, where he would be lost and isolated; or even become extinct. But you don’t need to cross the seas or spend thousands of Dinars [Saudi currency] to reach the safe harbor of civilization. Civilization is coming to you; it is in your grasp. You can hang on to it and be saved. You can change, free of charge, into a refined human being who deserves to be called “international.” Gone is the age of colonization: The age of globalization is here. This is the truth that the Arabs still reject, insisting on the same old imaginary conspiracy of a Western plan to eradicate Islam. Did the Arabs lift a finger to help the people of Kosovo when they were suffering from Serbian persecution? They gathered a few donations, but it was America who saved Kosovo. The Arabs did nothing to aid the women of Afghanistan when they were forbidden an education, and when the Afghani people were robbed of the chance for a normal life. America had to come in and rid the region of the backward Taliban regime. The fear that the Arabs had for the prestige of their governments was more important to them than the injustices that the Iraqis were living under. Not one Arab government condemned the Halabja massacre and the Iraqi loss of life. It was America, and only America, who toppled Saddam’s regime, while the Arabs stood by denouncing the American intervention in Iraq. Since the inception of the Muslim Brotherhood movement and the emergence of some Islamist countries, we see the Arab women’s conditions gradually deteriorating. The Arab feminist movement was nothing more than theoretical conferences for leading Arab women, where they posed for the cameras and discussed their childhood problems. Saying that America is targeting the Arabs is a weak and untrue statement: We saw how the U.S. Secretary of State stressed that democracy in Russia had many problems, when she was visiting there a few months ago. It is also well known that the United States had supported the Georgian opposition against the dictatorship there. During the annual session of the Organization of American States this year, Condoleezza Rice emphasized the fragility of democracy in Venezuela and other countries in Latin America. Many Arabs and Muslims view America as evil. They curse America and hurl insults at it. Some even bomb it and terrorize it. But America doesn’t have the time to curse back; it is too busy finishing the job it came to do in the Middle East.
If you go to the link, you will find out that the article was written by an Arab girl in Arabic--not some Valley Girl!
Along the same lines: http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006968.php The Arab Mind by Tarek Heggy in Cairo, Egypt I have written many books and articles over the last ten years about the defects in the Arab mind-set, all of which are cultural defects stemming from three main sources. The first is the repressive climate that prevails throughout Arab societies, the second a backward educational system that lags far behind modern educational systems and the third a mass-media apparatus operated by those responsible for the climate of political repression to serve their interests. The following are the most obvious defects from which the contemporary Arab mind-set suffers: A lack of intellectual hospitality; It is steeped in a culture that encourages conformity and discourages diversity; Limited tolerance for the Other; Limited tolerance for criticism and the virtual absence of self-criticism; The adoption of stands not on the basis of their coherence, validity or intrinsic value but on the basis of tribal or religious affiliations; Deep feelings of inequality with others in terms of results and achievements makes for a sense of inadequacy that is sublimated into an exaggerated and unfounded pride; A tendency to indulge in excessive self-praise and to glorify past achievements as a way of escaping our dismal reality; The prevalence of what I call the ‘big-talk culture’, in which overblown rhetoric is used to compensate for the appalling lack of concrete achievements; A lack of objectivity and the growth of individualism; An unhealthy nostalgia for and escape into the past; An aversion to the notion of compromise, which is deemed to be a form of capitulation and defeat; Lack of respect for women; A tendency to unquestioningly accept stereotypes at face value; Setting great store by the conspiracy theory and believing that the Arabs are always the victims of heinous plots hatched against them by their enemies; An ill-defined sense of national identity: is it Arab, Muslim, Asian, African or Mediterranean? The spread of the personality cult phenomenon in Arab societies, where the relationship with the ruler is based not on mutual respect and accountability but on the excessive adulation, not to say deification, of the ruler; The prevalence of an insular culture that knows next to nothing about the outside world and the real balance of power by which it is governed, let alone the science or culture of others; A lack of appreciation for the value of the bond that links the human species together, which is their common humanity. For most people in the region, the only bonds that count are either tribal, sectarian or nationalistic, although humanity is the most exalted common denominator of all; The spread of a mentality of fanaticism due to a number of factors, the most important being the tribalism that dominates the Arab mind-set to varying degrees; Finally, the Arab mind-set is not overly concerned with the notion of freedom for the simple reason that the Arabs have enjoyed only limited doses of political rights and civil liberties. The twenty defects listed above are by no means exhaustive; I have no doubt that any Middle East expert can come up with many more. However, all these defects are acquired, which means they are amenable to reform. Moreover, they can all be found, albeit to different degrees, in other societies. As I mentioned, they stem from the prevailing climate of political despotism and outdated educational and information systems designed and operated to serve the interests of a power structure intent on maintaining its iron grip. These defects will continue to grow unless radical changes are introduced to all three areas. The political system must be overhauled with a view to providing a wider margin of freedom and allowing people a greater say in determining the shape of their present and future. The educational systems in force must be reorganized from the ground up, their philosophy, curricula and methods brought into line with the requirements of the age. Last but not least, the media must be removed from under the thumb of government and allowed to function in complete political and economic freedom as a credible forum for the dissemination of culture, ideas and information. For more of Tarek Heggy's writtings in English, please visit www.t-heggy-site-contents.org and for Tarek Heggy's writings in French please visit www.metransparent.com/authors/french/tarek_heggy.htm. ************ Of course Arabs comprise a minority of Muslims, but this kind of thinking is hardly limited to Arab Muslims.
Except in the cases like that of the civil rights movement when they are spearheading the fight against oppression. It was a dual edged sword because part of at least one of those religions was opposing progress, while another was spearheading it.
The currency of Saudi is the "Riyal", not the "Dinar". Shows you how much the author knows. Anyways, I am a firm believer that the REAL culprit of backwardness has much more to do with the system under which one lives than anything else. When those immigrants from oppressive regimes come to our country they tend to do very well for themselves, actually much better than the average American. They tend to be highly educated people, and when they are provided with the chance to succeed, they do very well. The problem is as long as the Arab regimes are corrupt (has nothing to do with democracy really, just corruption and outright oppression of their citizens) there will never be any real change, and those countries will continue to experience a "brain drain" when the cream of the crop leaves their home countries to look for better opportunities, a better life, and a society that appreciates their abilities. To say that Arab education is "backwards" is rather a vague and inaccurate statement. Which Arab countries are you talking about? Because countries like Iraq or Egypt or Jordan or Lebanon have pretty darn good higher education institutions that provide top-notch education in the fields of science, math, and medicine. Countries like Egypt and Iraq have more PhDs per capita than any Western country. Qatar now is providing American-style colleges/universities for their students with American-designed curricula that is as good (if not better) than most universities in the United States. Emirates is the same way. Most of these countries have "secular" education systems that do not concentrate on religious subjects. Saudi, from experience, has had the problems the first article (or rather blogs) talked about, because they heavily concentrate on religious subjects and the state officially endorses religious books that teach Wahhabism. But even the Saudis have very good universities for higher education, although sadly the average Saudi ranks education pretty low on his list of priorities. Many of these Arab countries have their kids learning at a much higher level than our American kids are at a similar age during their pre-college years, which raises the question of whether or not our public schools are any good to begin with, despite the billions spent on them (you don't need me to tell you how screwed up our public education system is, and that is why American students stink it up whenever they engage their counterparts in other countries around the world in math and the sciences). Oh, and by the way, ask any Arab engineer or doctor or pharmacist as to what they learned in their schools back in the Arab world, and they will tell you that their entire curricula was in English, and their books were actually British and American publications, not books made in the Arab world. In short, they teach their engineering and medical school students the same things you learn here, because their curriculum IS a Western one. In case my point has been lost on you, It is this: for the most part, the real problem in the Arab world has to do with the absence of opportunities and appreciation for the citizen. When a college kid in Egypt or Jordan graduates from college and can't find any employment opportunities that take advantage of his/her educations and skills, and when they find themselves in the midst of a corrupt system that doesn't treat everyone simply on merits rather than whom they know, that is the REAL problem in the Arab world. The problem is not the "backwardness" of the educational system, but rather the system/atmosphere the average Arab citizen finds himself/herself in, the lack of opportunities and a government/system that exploits their talents, which in turn discourages them or pushes them away to go out and try to find a better life elsewhere, thus creating a "brain drain" back in their homelands.
Yes, of course! It's been right in front of my eyes ALL this time, and I couldn't see it! THAT's why the Bush administration has sent our troops to the Middle East, to rescue that Arabs and give them a better life. Oh those ungrateful pigs! How dare they question the charitable Americans! Everything our government does is to help the Arabs have a better life, that's why we continue to sell Israel deadly weapons/technology to use against the Palestinians, that's why we supported (and still do) those bad Arab regimes that have brutalized their people and kept 'em under control, who promised to be good American puppets in return for the political/military backing of the U.S. All that has been for the good of the Arabs, but they just don't know it yet. Please, give me a break! The U.S. is not a charitable organization, nor should it ever be, it is a sane international actor that looks out for its own interests, not those of others, unless the two interests happen to coincide.
I've been skimming this thread so no comment on the specifics but was just thinking. A thousand years ago weren't Muslims wondering the same thing about Christianity? Like why were Christians so backward and barbaric in their eyes. Most of our opinions I think have more to do with prevailing political situations and also who has power. From my non-Christian non-Muslim POV it looks like both religions teach love and respect but also talk about violence here and there while historically, even now, members of both practice oppression and violence. If this is an argument about which is superior (with lines like "the Qu'ran says this" and "Islam teaches more violence than the New Testament" tells me there is some sense to that) both seem about equal to me.
Newsflash - this ain't the 11th Century, though many Muslims wish that it was, and that is a problem.
Sishir, while I repect your opinion most of the time, your response to this topic (like many others) is just straight PC. Like a political candidate afraid to alienate either side. Basiclly: Muslim = Christian. This is the D&D afterall.
This made me laugh (albeit bitterly). The same generic statement could be easily made of christians. Organized religion is useless.
Sishir, To answer your question, no I don't think it is about "Christianity vs. Islam", it is not like it is a competition to decide which religion is superior to the other. Oh, btw, the 11 century was only the start of the Islamic golden age, not the end. It continued with the Ottomans throughout the 15th and 16th centuries, which is about the time Europe started coming out of its shell. Civilzations are just like people: they start young, they mature and reach their peak, and then start to decline over time. It happened to the Greek, the Egyptians, the Arabs, the Chinese, and now we are witnessing the same phenomena with the West, especially the United States. The U.S. has a very young history and hasn't been dominant on the global stage for that long, it's only been since WWII or so. No one is immune to it, it's all a matter of time. The West ascended to global dominance around what, 17th century or so? China is making a strong comeback to resurrect its former glory, so that would be more of a rebirth of a dynasty.
It might be unintentionally PC but as a non-Christian and non-Muslim, it pretty much seems the same to me. Different actors, different catechisms but I can't see any greater advantage or disadvantage between the two if I take them at face value. Would you feel better if I said IMO both religions suck about equally? Then that would piss both Muslims and Christians off.
No really.... And here I was going to Home Depot to buy some concrete blocks to build a great wall to repel Mongol invaders. In case you missed it my point was that the views of both religions of each other are more colored by previaling political views and power relationships than anything inherently in the religions.
Religion - PFFFT. Something written by man to control the ignorant masses. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Think for yourselves people, don't allow some dusty manuscript written by someone calling themselves the messiah to guide your lives. God is in all of us, you don't need someone who has an alterior motive telling you how to live. Religion, and particularly the Muslim faith is a joke. Here is a case where Mormons are just as ignorant as the Taliban Muslims. http://bbs06.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=97574 DD
A recent survey showed that a whopping 62% of Americans said that religion was a VERY important part of their lives? By contrast, only about 14-19% of Europeans consider religion a major part of their lives. What is it in the American culture that makes religion so central in the lives of so many people? I think this has been the one thing that puzzles the Europeans about America, they don't fully understand why this country is unable to break free of religion and fully embrace secularism not just in rhetoric, but in practice in every aspect of life. The British, the French, the Germans, and even the supposedly devout Italians are less religious than we are. Is it simply that we are behind the Europeans in the 'evolution' curve, and thus we will be more like Europe is today a few decades from now? Or are there other factors?
