Huh? I haven't dropped the "bust" talk FYI. You just misunderstood my post. I said Harden was a bust for a top 3 lottery pick and I stand by it. I said that I project Harden's ceiling to be an elite role player. Is an elite player good value for a top 3 lottery pick? He's a bust in that regard. I find it interesting how you say Harden and Sefalosha are "Nothing at alike. AT ALL" when both guys are off-the-ball contributors and pretty much low volume scorers who can play good D. Harden 9.9/3.2/1.8 Sefolosha 6/4.0/1.7 Yep, their production is WORLDS apart In summary, I haven't dropped the bust talk and I actually think you're the one who misunderstand what Harden's role is on the Thunder if you claim his game is nothing at all alike to Sefalosha.You describe Harden as some sort of offensive firecracker who just lights up the opponent and goes on scoring binges every so often, however I looked at his game scores and Harden cracked 20 points only 4 times this season. In fact, 53% of his games are 9 pts and below, hardly the work of an offensive juggernaut. His role on the team simply put is glue, and while I'm not asking for the world, for a top 3 pick I'm not settling for glue either. .
This. I was about to post the same comment. Evans will not make your team better. The thunder are not kicking themselves for missing out on him.
I caught myself thinking this a couple of months ago and came to the realization that we didn't get to see Harden showcase himself in an offense like we were able to see with Evans and Steph Curry. I have to believe that given the same amount of freedom to handle the ball and shoot like those two had, that we would have seen a much more exciting James Harden. Evans and Curry started kind of slow this year, but by the end of the year, they were allowed to dominate the ball and put up huge numbers. Harden didn't get nearly the same opportunity in OKC and I think that if you took Harden and put him in either of those situations, he would have flourished and either of those other guys in OKC would have looked a little less stellar. For me, it would be out of Harden and Curry if I were the Thunder. I'm a little worried about how an Evans and Westbrook backcourt would work because one of them would have to play off the ball and at this stage, Evans is at his best when he is able to control the ball and his outside shot needs MAJOR work. Evans may eventually be a better SG than PG, but that doesn't change the fact that he pounds the ball into the ground far too often to get his looks. Both are uber talented so I'm sure they would find a way to make it work, but Curry and Harden fit better IMO.
I think Harden will have a great career, and he's a team player unlike Evans who reminds me of a slightly taller Stephon Marbury/Steve Francis clone.
Harden had a solid season for the Thunder, and could be a very solid role player for them. They made a big jump in the standings this year, while the Kings continued to suck. Evans may not of fit with the Thunder as well as others have mentioned. Evans have to lead a team to the playoffs before I start considering him a star.
The reason this guy needs (or wants) to have the ball so often fact that is because he doesn't have a jump shot. He doesn't have the confidence to be able to score from the perimeter if others pass it to him. When he develops a jump shot--something that most rookies need to work out--then we can judge Evans' impact on the Kings and his future in the NBA. I find it funny that a lot of these posters are already calling him a cancer and a stat-padder after 1 whole year in the NBA. Besides, at this point in time, if Evans doesn't have the ball, then who does? Let me hear someone's great, in-depth analysis of why Evans should not be the one running the team. Once he does improve his shooting, I'm sure he'd be able to (and more confident about) staying in the perimeter and waiting for others to kick it out to him for an open shot. Even with a broken shot, Evans managed to finish the season at 46%. That's impressive, even for established veterans who are considered stars. Evans does not need 25 shots to produce his stats.
I think you're overestimating what a rookie should do. Dwight Howard only averaged 12 points his rookie year and Deron Williams only scored 10.8. Brooks barely even played his rookie year. Then we have players like Adam Morrison and Channing Frye who averaged better stats than Harden. We just don't know how careers will pan out after a one year evaluation. Although there are players like Durant and Rose who are sure-fire stars, most players take a couple of years to develop. Harden scores 4 more points in fewer minutes...The guy is much more offense oriented than Sefolosha. Bottom line is look at the other two players above Harden. Griffin didn't contribute at all, but that can't be helped. Hasheem Thabeet? I think the better question is what the Grizzlies thinking. You're expecting too much. IN the past 5 years, other than Durant, Majo, and Rose, the top three picks of their respective drafts have not been major impact players on their first year.
Tyreke Evans is the #1 option on his team. James Harden is #4 option on his team. Evans averaged 37.5 mpg Harden averaged 22 mpg
Evans' team 25-57, #15 in the West, #27 in the league. Harden's team 50-32, #8 in the West, #12 in the league.
Do you really believe looking at season stats proves two players are nearly the same? Try watching the Thunder play a few times. Sefalosha and Harden don't do the same things on the court at all. When Harden comes in for Thabo, it gives the Thunder a completely different look. It's silly to compare their scoring averages and say they are similar players. What they have in common is playing the same position, SG. On offense, Harden can create his own shot off the dribble, is good at dishing off and drawing fouls at the rim. He'll even play the point position a few times in half-court. Thabo can't do ANY of that. Is this even understandable to you? All Thabo does most of the time is park in the corner and wait for a pass. If his shot is contested at all, it's over. Thabo's has no confidence on that end of the floor and plays like it. Other times he'll try to grab an offensive rebound. That just about sums up what he does on offense. Harden <> Thabo. Lastly, for the third time, I'm asking you to say what Harden should have done on the Thunder last season to avoid your "bust as a 3rd pick" label. Please go on the record. Harden didn't set the world on fire as a rookie, but he didn't really get the chance. He did well with the situation he was put in and showed a lot of promise. KD was a #2 pick, Westbrook went at #5 and both of them got criticized more much as rookies more than Harden, a #3. Next season, he needs to be more consistent, keep improving on defense and add 3-4 pts/game to his average. If this happens, I think the Thunder will have no regrets. The debate is whether he'll replace Thabo in the starting lineup.
What in his post makes you think he would do that? He's saying that Reke was put on a team of zeroes where the world centered around him isoing and taking any shot he wanted while Harden was a bench player on a very good team where he had to fit into a system that focused on winning. I don't think any sane person would argue that Reke isn't more talented than Harden, at least right now. If I had a team of trash, give me Tyreke Evans over James Harden. If my team were the Thunder, it's advantage Harden.
Harden has a better offensive skillset, but their games still are similar. Its not like Thabo is doing jump hooks in the paint while Harden is crossing people up, and dunking on people. Harden does more, but like I said before both of them act as glue more than anything else on offense. Reading what you wrote about Harden's game its like he was an offensive juggernaut who can carry a team, well he's not! He still plays off of KD/WB the same as Thabo does, and if left alone he'll collapse under the strain of creating an offense the same as Thabo does. As for proving that he's worth a 3rd pick, how about outplaying the rest of the guys chosen after him? You really think Harden is better than Curry, Tyreke or Brandon Jennings? Those guys flash star potential from time to time, and that's something I've yet to see Harden do. I already went on record on what a 3rd pick should be, and that's a star. Harden's a roleplayer. Not a star. Which is what you want your 3rd pick to be. How much clearer do I have to be? You're the one who keeps dodging my question: is a role player good value for a 3rd overall pick? As for not getting the chance, that's bull****. The starting SG slot was being manned by Sefalosha, a guy keep getting down on. If Harden was so good don't you think he would have grabbed the starting spot by the end of the year? The only reason Harden isn't being put on the spotlight is because his team was winning due to KD and WB. If KD and WB weren't there Harden would pretty much be considered a bust as I don't think he can carry the team the way Tyreke, Jennings and Curry could.
No, I'd take Kevin Garnett (4th offensive option on the Celtics) over Tyreke Evans. :grin: Seriously, I was just trying to put mazyar's claim in perspective. Saying that Player A is option one and Player B is option 4 means nothing unless you put it in the context of what kind of teams they are on. And thanks A_3PO for answering for me.
Sorry, but a #3 pick doesn't have to be a star on a good team to avoid the bust label. If Harden had been on the Warriors or Kings, his numbers would have been much better. He isn't as gifted as Curry or Reke, but that doesn't make him a bust at #3. For what the Thunder needed this season, a 6th man role was fine for Harden. He isn't a bust for not starting or being a role player behind KD and Westbrook. If he was coming off the bench for the Kings or Warriors, yes, he would be a disappointment at #3. IMO, he didn't get the starting spot because Scott Brooks is more concerned about defense than offense and he didn't want to disrupt the chemistry of the team. When Harden brought his "A" or "B" game, he got more minutes. When he didn't or when Thabo was particularly effective, Harden got less minutes. Unlike Reke or Curry, the entire season (or half the season for Curry) wasn't dedicated solely to helping him develop his game. It was purely about winning. Lastly, to say he just plays off KD and Westbrook like Thabo does is plain wrong. It's not even debatable. Their games are not similar. With that, you are just saying stuff to be saying stuff or don't know any better. We can disagree on how good Harden was or should have been, but he ain't nothing like Thabo other than playing the same position.
You may be on to something because Curry is special talent. I don't believe it was just Nellie's system. When it's all said and done, I think Curry will emerge as the best player in last year's draft.