The term "Islamophobia" is a misnomer and a propaganda weapon

The people clamoring for Christian Nationalism and rule of law based on our Judeo-Christian values are the only real proponents of Shariah law in the US.

 

The point of my argument is that while yes there are Islamic extremists and terrorists. They doesn’t mean we should hold every doner vendor in Munich or Birmingham in suspicion or that because there are Muslim immigrants coming to the US that we should en in fear to the point we ban immigration from Muslim countries.

That is exactly what we mean by Islamophobia.

From both statistics and personal experience the vast vast vast majority of Muslim immigrants aren’t extremists. That doesn’t mean we don’t have sensible things like vetting of immigrants, which the US does already, or work with authorities when there is reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion isn’t just that someone is a Muslim.

 

A double down...Do you want a debate or a soapbox? I'll enable you with cliffs notes since you didn't bother to read the article I based my reply on. I surreptitiously removed any mention of Sharia Law...

Which is why i began my reply with "Assuming I take the premise at face value,". I could've knee jerked with a different bent. I wasn't being An Alarmist and was reconsidering an issue that had a bad flareup with the ongoing Gaza protests debacle.

Yes, I have been to Europe. Integration in Europe is not our idea of integration here.
I lived Germany for a minute and their debates over identity were held long before terror events or the ugly mass sexual assaults in Cologne/Germany at 2016 New Year's. Paris is slowly creeping more into the San Francisco Problem rather than the old Clean Europe stereotypes. I went through the slums of Marseilles without realizing it.

Yes, I have been to Muslim countries. It's been a while, but I would go back to some.

You could read more for research rather than checking for bona fides of worldliness, but I'm not grading for performance or in general. You might feel uncomfortable unsafe, but that's the real world we live in. You gotta love it to expect more and do more for it.

https://www.restorationbulletin.com/p/islamism-and-the-far-right-two-sides

 

I mean Europe is going to Europe. The world champs in terms of scapegoating. Long history of blaming migrants and minority groups for their problems. Ain't surprised large political movements in places like Germany found a new scapegoat to replace Jews.

I do find it ironic that a Israeli Jewish publication is complaining about migrants in Europe. Sounds like a Mien Kampf premise.

 

You asked me to gloss over it. It’s a very long piece but I did read a fair amount of it

as you yourself state it is an opinionated piece. It is drawing political opinions about Sunak and it self notes that the Far Right exaggerates.

Again my point still stands that the piece doesn’t say that muslims in general be held in suspicions and that many Muslims are themselves fleeting from repressive theocratic regimes.

Good that you’ve been there. Now did you feel
that those countries were hot beds of radicalism and that doner vendors were Islamic extremists Trojan horses?

as for more research versus worldliness while out experienced are apocryphal I suspect that those experiences, that the vast vast majority of Muslims aren’t a threat or even interested in radicalism.

Do you feel that we should be banning immigration from Muslim countries because all Muslims are here to radicalize?

You’re talking about this being a frog in the pot so how much do you consider the average Muslim
Immigrant to be a danger?

 

I implicitly asked you to click on the link which had a second different article. I displayed the old link as a joke for you having the slothfulness of replying to "book club topics" that you glossed over.

So you think I am advocating your counterpoint after finally(?) reading the article I replied to, or is this a triple down strawman at the 4th and 30?

Why does it matter what I think about the experience in those countries? I said I would go back.

I went to touristy areas, and much like how I could comment on Mexico turning into a narco hotbed despite visiting Cancun,Aculpulco, etc..., neither you nor I could provide anything of merit for this topic from our experiences unless you personally went up to an extremist terror site and the gracious hosts swore on the Bible that they were really cool peace loving dudes, Scout's Honor.

I lived in Germany, talked to locals about stuff happening on the news, and had Muslim co-workers who I liked more than some others.

Does that make extremism a boogeyman you tell your children? Does talking about Islamist Extremism as an adult make me an Islamophobe? That's not a mature reaction...

Here's a Shaymaylan twist, I haven't spent more than a day in Britain.

BTW, are you bristling at @fchowd0311's flippant remarks about Europe? That dude in need of playing Twenty Questions in Europe, but I'm missing the rulebook for that game.

Do you know what extremism is defined as?

Do we need to continue if you really really do, or is this an exercise/lesson that "not all of party A are extremists"?

If all the Muslims I knew were extremists, I probably wouldn't like them.

I bet we're discussing this because you wouldn't like them either.

I don't think immigration quotas here will do much because our situation is wholly different than Europe's. The circumstances in the first article are not ours, and for you to assume as much is slothful to say the very least. Quite frankly, it wastes both of our time.

The demographic problem England or France is a matter where banning immigration neither solves their issues nor would it be politically feasible. The projections in the second link hint at a future where 1/7-1/8 of their total population is Muslim. So yeah, screening would've helped for them. Can't anymore.

One of her points is for the government to improve on integrating. As you've "been to Europe", do you know how they have integrated immigrant populations recently or over the past 50 years? It aint like the US, I can tell you that.

That failure of stratified classes is what they're paying for right now.

There are different definitions held for "Islamist intimidation", but the response to Gaza demonstrations against Jewish Americans and those who speak for them has been chilling for me. If they can't reduce the number of people unwilling to call themselves British or French first, then a minority from that group will be a bigger pain in the ass to deal with. The violent kind the rest of the protestors brandish to get heard...

Am I "wrong" to voice that fear or you still think I'm raising the alarm bells that the collective farts of all Muslim Migrants will kill us all in a slow death?

 

I do fear the Jewish Americans protesting for Gazans. They have been abused by cointe protestors with abject violence.

I do know the state of Israel uses their propaganda machine to weaponize anti-semitism.

 

And the irony of me being flippant about Muslim migration....

I'm the only one here who was actually born and raised in Muslim immigrant households. So I objectively have more insight. And if you think that makes me a biased arbiter then understand that I'm what you consider an "apostate".

Germans are famous for not scapegoating minority groups.

 

The difference in integration patterns between American and Europeans Muslims is simply based in socioeconomics.

It's the same reason why if you visit Bangaldesh, the wealthy high rise condos section of Dhaka have women dressed in western style clothing with no head coverings where women and men live mostly secular lives as a more common occurrence and when you visit poor rural villages in the same country you'll hardly see a woman not wearing a head covering and everyone adhering strongly to things like 5 times a day prayer, mosque attendence etc.

 

That's fair too. We're all feeding and reacting upon echoes of a long dead past, an 60 year old game of telephone on top of a 1000+ yr old squabble based upon smoke signals over who could get their funeral pyre higher.

Exactly.

You carry yourself to be more Enlightened and Principled than the rest of us, and I fell for it!!

America's vast ocean borders allow us to be more selective compared to floods of people trying to swim/float their way to Greece hell or highwater. Socioeconomics is a numbers game, but radicalization can cut across swaths of social strata, much like a born again Christian doesn't have to be from the boonies to qualify.

P.S. I'm not sure if your need to triple post is because you think I'm insinuating that you or your family were similar as migrant radicals or that I'd support a policy to "reject you" if it were to ever come up.

I'm not, and I haven't have a reason to think/believe so.

 

This time. Just this one time the scapegoating of a minority group by Germans and Europeans is not going to age badly like all the other previous scapegoating.

Just this one time.

This is the colloquial definition of insanity.

Never trust western countries when they scapegoat minority groups. Never. It never aged well in history.

 

So... :reads rulebook: have you been to Europe?

If yes, were those countries were hot beds of scapegoating and were their doner vendors rightwing genocidal Trojan horses?

 

Wut

 

Exactly

 

Dude be more explicit. Are you saying this is the one time scapegoating a new migrant group by Europeans is going to age well in 20 years?

Do you know how ubiquitous anti-semtisim was before WW2? Parties that labeled themselves as "liberal" back in the 1920s in Germany for example with the DDP was rige with anti-semtisim. It was the default position of the cast majority of western culture akin to how the West views Islam today. Only after mass death camps were people like "yo was our rhetoric going too far?".

 

Through all of this what are you really arguing for?

It sounds like you basically agree with me that while yes there are Islamic extremists and that we should take measures like vetting to deal with them you also don't think we should hold Muslims in general in suspicion.

Do you agree then that holding Muslims in general in suspicion is "Islamophobia"?

 

That's for you to figure out from an article you didn't bother to seriously read.

P.S. I think @fchowd0311 really hasn't been to Europe. He may need one of your patented lectures.

 

Hey man this time the scapegoating will age well.

I d been to Europe. No way I would claim my time in Europe allows me to be a subject matter expert on Muslim migration and it's problems unlike you.

 

You got the wrong poster claiming to be the expert by virtue of being there bud.

I'm not the one casting aspersions against an entire continent, though I'm the only one so far that's calling out against your Europhobia.