Low risk high reward. The low risk, 2.3m for a yr, the high reward, a guy that can go for 20 on a night when the starters don't have it. Do you see Barry or shane getting 20 when Yao,ron, or tracy is struggling? Hell, it doesn't even have to be 20, just get 15 and defend you position. That's what I'm saying. There is a reason the rox have struggled in the post season and it not yao or tracy. They have a bunch of avg talent players that come playoff time, they can't elevate thei game consistently because they maxed their talent just to stay competitve in the regular. During playoff time, they've shot their load. Playing hard isn't a talent or skill. They Everyone plays hard in the playoffs, but who can bring a unique skill that can effect a game? Its not surprising when finley has a 20 pt game in the playoffs. Why? It wasn't that long ago he avg 20ppg. It surprises everyone when rafer,shane,scola and barry hits the 20pt mark. Why? They've never done it in their career. So when a guy like Shane has a chance to sieze the moment, he can't because he doesn't know what its like. Just like last yr when barry got hot in that 1 playoff game. He wound up with the las shot, got the defender in the air, ducked the contact and missed at the 3pt line and missed the shot. If that was any player with experience in that sxenerio, he wouldve jumped into the guy and drawn a foul. Since Barry hasn't been in that experinxe.
Rafer or Luis scoring 20 wouldn't surprise anyone. Over last regular season and this season they've done so 13 and 12 times, respectively. No Spurs has scored 20 points more than 7 times outside of their big three (Finley has done it 7 times).
Plus Brent Barry has 2 rings so yes he knows what to do in the playoffs. And when did Ricky Davis become a playoff savvy veteran?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3264/gamelog;_ylt=Aq4bZj2KQRoe2e5UXS0rLDNCPKB4 Ricky Davis goes for 20 when starters don't have it?
Never said that about davis. Barry was on a spurs team and rode coattails like a lot of lower tier players in the league. Hell Glenn Robinson has a ring. What I'm saying is having a guy capable without having to exceed his talent or being on fire that can produce buckets in limited time is good to have. With the rox, its almost a necessity . It didn't have to be Davis, I brought up Evans and Barnes. 2 guys big enough and quick enough to defend their position on the perimeter and on the blks. Barry was terrible against la last yr and really hasn't done anything the last 2 yrs. There is a reason why the spurs have been trying to trade him for the last 2 yrs and last yr he avg 5 ppg in the playoffs. Durvasa- When Rafer is on fire, he gets to 20 sometimes, but that's still exceeding his talent. I don't think a guy being on fire to get 20 and saying that's not a surprise, is a stretch. I would rather have a guy that has avg 20 ppg within the last couple of yrs or even a guy that has avg 15ppg, so I know if need be, it doesn't take a act of god to get 15 or 20. When rafer gets 15, he's hot, when someone who is a natural scorer gets 15 or 20, they're capable. That's what I'm saying. This team has scoring slumps in the playoffs because they don't have enough capable scorers. They have guys that need tracy,ron, or yao to get them baskets. When they have advantages, they don't have capable guys. So when 1 of the 3 struggle offensively or last yr 1 of the 2, all that was left was a bunch of try hard limited guys that can't produce.
You could say the same thing about the Spurs. What Michael Finley was capable of doing 3-4 years ago doesn't apply now. He isn't a guy who can create baskets on his own anymore, unless as you put it he's gets hot. He's a spot up shooter who relies on his teammates to get him open looks. 86% of his field goals are assisted this year, and last yaer it was 78%. Even Luther Head scores more off his own dribble than Finley.
Its so you to pull a box score. You didn't pull this. 2007-08 28 MIA NBA 82 2960 1130 13.8 420 972 .432 155 197 .787 135 334 .404 55 298 353 4.3 276 3.4 87 14 191 187 ** Log
Juwan Howard. Bonzi Wells. Steve Francis. Mike James. The Rockets, in recent years, have done exactly what you've asked for. They've taken in players with a history of scoring a lot of points on bad teams. How do you think that worked out? Hey look, Mike James is back to scoring 13 ppg with the Wizards. Bonzi is doing a Wilt Chamberlain impression over in China. They must be players who'd really help us right now, right?
That's his point. If a player used to score a lot of points on a bad team, that means he's still capable of doing so on a good team.
Durvasa- I may be in the minority, but howard gave us what I thought he would give. In otlando, he took almost 1000 shots and avg 17. In houst he took half that and got a little more than half the points. His fg% were all the same. Battiers numbers or offense never changes because he never ups his offense when given the chance. Howard would at least step up when yao would go down. What did shane do when Tracy went out? Exactly and that why our record was so poor minus tracy.
I don't think Juwan was even close to contributing as much to winning as Shane over the course of the season. Battier can't replace what T-Mac does on offense because they're completely different offensive players. T-Mac is a playmaker, and Battier is a spot up shooter. Juwan has some semblance of a post up game, though not particularly effective. We could make do with him in that role, as long as T-Mac could step up his game and dominate (which is what he was able to do in our wins when Yao went down). The Rockets could have had Luis Scola or Carl Landry on those teams instead of an over-the-hill Juwan Howard, and they would have been even better off. That's what we saw last year -- with T-Mac not close to being what he was in previous seasons, and the Rockets still finishing the season without Yao with one of the best records.
Howard gave the rox 11pts 7rebs which is pretty much what scola does. I know ur a stats guy durvasa, go look up howards numbers when the Rox went 22-12 minus yao and compare that to shane when tracy was out. When a team loses their primary scorer, its up to everyone to pick up their offense to compensate for those points. Reason is, there is now 15 or so shots availiable now.
Why should I compare it to Shane? Wouldn't it make more sense to compare it to Scola? He's another guy you said can't step up and score 20 points, and they actually play the same role. I'm no more of a stats guy than you, and I prefer to compare stats of players where it actually makes sense. That means taking role into account. Last season, this is what Luis Scola gave us in games where Yao did not play: 07/08, 24 games, 30.5 min, 13.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 56.0 TS% Here are the numbers for Juwan the prior two seasons: 05/06, 23 games, 36.9 min, 16.8 points, 7.6 rebounds, 50.7 TS% 06/07, 34 games, 32.3 min, 13.5 points, 6.5 rebounds, 52.5 TS% average, 57 games, 34.1 min, 14.8 points, 6.9 rebounds, 51.7 TS% adjusted, 57 games, 30.5 min, 13.2 points, 6.2 rebounds, 51.7 TS% You said what Juwan gave us is "pretty much" what Scola would give us. That's simply not the case. But even if it was, that belies your prior arguments that Scola is merely an AC Green player who isn't a goto option while Juwan Howard is someone you can rely on to carry the team. I happen to agree with you that Scola is more or less an AC Green type player, but I definitely disagree that Juwan Howard was a valuable contributor to our winning in Yao's absence. In reality, Scola has been a much more effective player than Juwan ever was with us. JVG gave Juwan a ton of minutes because he trusted him more than Stromile Swift and because we didn't have another scoring PF option in the 06/07 season. So, yeah, he scored more points (while shooting much less efficiently from the field). But when you adjust for the minutes discrepency, you get a truer comparison of what they did while on the court. Scola was a more effective scorer, much more efficient, and he also was a significantly better rebounder. And when you add Landry's productivity to the mix last year, we were much stronger at PF than Juwan ever was. So there goes another one of your arguments (its better to have an over the hill guy with a history of scoring playing big minutes than a much more efficient PF tandem). Again, role matters. Battier is not a go to scorer. It's not in his makeup, and its not his skill. That doesn't make him less valuable of a player than another guy who can score points. He plays a different role, and he's valuable in a different way. Bonzi was a guy who could score points on his own. Do you the coaches valued his presence on the floor more than Battier's the last couple years, with or without Tracy McGrady? I guarantee you they did not. Just compare Shane's MPG and Bonzi's MPG if you don't believe me.
Every lower tiered players will ride coattails. Horry rode coattails but he was the right type of player the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs needed. A big man that can space the floor. And he plays defense and more of a complete player then Tim Thomas, because I know you'll pimp TT. TT just plays for a contract. Mo Evans and Matt Barnes aren't what I call capable defenders and reliable scorers. They are just journeymen players who won't make a difference in the W/L columns.
You kinda proved my point. When Yao went down, scola and howard increased their production from the norm. That's what being a good role player is suppose to do. Why is ot too much to ask shane, the former #6, and a guy we traded the #8 for to pick it up when someone goes down. I didn't say I wanted him to go from 10ppg to 20, but from 10 to 13 wouldve been nice. What I said about Howard, and I'm not going to derail this is for all people complain about him, the team won 50 games and 52 games with him as a starter and as a bench player. The yr the rox won 52, yao missed 34 games and as you've pointed out, he picked up his offense by 6 pts one year and 3 another. Why? Because he was confident because he had done it before. I never expected him to score 17ppg, when he got the fga, he produced the 17ppg like his last yr in Orlando. V.3- I'm not pimping TT, I just know in the playoffs, he plays a lot better. Now even at 31, he's still a versitile,talented horry type of player except he's a better ballhandler and probably athelete. Now Horry wasn't a big regular season guy either and has been accused of slacking until the big lights come on. That doesn't bother me as long as when the games really count, the guy shows up. No matter what people say about TT, come playoff time, the guy shows up. This is about a guy like Shane and peopl using every excuse in the book for the guy. As much as rafer is put through the meat grinder, at least he will try with his limited talent to step up. On the other hand, people will make excuses for shane being super defensive specialist and yada,yada. How about improving your offensive game? So when some teams play a small guy on you or chase you off the 3pt line, you can post and score or put the ball on the ground and score or fill the lane and finish or cut, receive the ball and score? Is that asking too much? He and Rafer have probably the easiest offenseive jobs in basketball. I mean teams don't even guard them. In the summer, is it really that hard to add a 2 dribble pullup out the corner? I mean people want to talk work ethic, what has shane improved offensively since becoming a rocket. Don't give me the rox don't need him to score or he can score but don't. When your man doesn't guard you or run at you out of control, but you can't make them pay, that hurts the offensive flow. Its should be shane, not rafer that steps up offensively when needed. I mean who would ever think Rafer is a better offensive player than shane? Durvasa- We were talking about finley earlier and eventhough he had some 78% assisted on his baskets, there is also something else in those number you like to use sometime. Finley takes 47% of his shots from the arc while Battier takes 59%. So eventhough Finley has his baskets assisted on, he could get some layups on the break, he could get some 1 dribble 16ft ers in the halfcourt. Shane at almost 60% is strictly standing at the 3pt line with his hand up.
We didn't acquire Battier for his ability to replace T-Mac's scoring or playmaking. The intention was for him to be a complimentary player, and he's done a good job in that capacity. The last couple years, the Rockets have added other pieces that were intended to pick up the scoring/playmaking slack -- proven scorers like Wells, James, Francis, and this year Brooks and Artest. There have been very mixed results. I think it makes more sense to evaluate and critique players based on how they perform the role they are expected to perform, rather than the role you wish they'd perform. This year, we've added Ron Artest and an improved Aaron Brooks. And, lo and behold, the Rockets still aren't much better offensively than they've been in the past without Tracy McGrady. Artest is shooting 37% from the field, and he's the guy who was supposed to be the vaunted third scorer to pick up the team when T-Mac goes missing. Where are all the complaints about his offense on this board? If anything, I think we should be calling him the "Teflon Don" of the regular season. But that would not be fair, because we all know he's also playing with an injury (as is Battier, but nevermind that). Also, frankly, you overstate the disaster of us taking Battier with our 8th pick. Let's review the lottery selections that year: 1. A Bargnani 2. L Aldridge 3. A Morrison 4. T Thomas 5. S Williams 6. B Roy 7. R Foye 8. R Gay 9. P O'Bryant 10. S Sene 11. J Redick 12. H Armstrong 13. T Sefalosha 14. R Brewer Which of those players have given their respective teams (bad teams, mostly) more than what Battier has given a playoff-caliber Rockets team? In hindsight, you can make your arguments that Gay would be better for us than Battier the last couple years (the only evidence being that he's a more capable scorer). But relative to the other lottery teams that year, we got above average value out of that pick. Even if we just focus on the top 8 selections, you can only make a real case for Aldridge, Roy, and Gay being better players through two seasons than what Battier has been for us.
