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Generalizing big time here, its about different mindsets based on ethnicity - White posters love Battier to death. Cuz he represents many like-minded traits. He's exemplary. - Black posters see it as relating to the guy himself too much. And in the process going AGAINST "urban" style ball AND "urban" mentality. - Thats what causes resentment with black posters cuz they see it as almost intentionally overlooking flaws in the player to get a certain brand on the court. "We need more Battier, less THUGS". - It goes beyond the court. Battier is the guy white posters want their daughters to marry. Causing them to OVERRATE the player. And emboldens them to preach against bad character in the league and all that... - Black posters will think "Oh I see where this is going..." - Nothing we havent heard before. Its differences in cultures and styles. Inherent biases toward one's own preferred style. But its Battier love is promoting brand and image over production that "urban style baller" could easily do. And to boost Battier its sometimes putting DOWN "urban" style. - I shoulda stopped there. Where I confused it was I then added in ADDITION to that, black posters sense the same things everywhere ELSE, too. Like the NBA Dish. - All the threads bashing players on their behavior and "arrogance", I think black posters think white posters try to be purity police too much. Thats really nothing new either cuz NBA has always had its image problems. Thats been going on for decades. But a Battier type makes it more polarizing. - I then added that white posters will claim its not like that at all. But then you see posts going off on negative player attributes like being a "knucklehead", "arrogant", "lazy". You see posts valuing "high IQ", "hustle player", "good shooter"."good character", And then you suspiciously see JJ Redick gets high praise and JR Smith needs to get shot. We see the Duke ball bias, come on people - Then people start pulling out the advanced stats, and it gets more entertaining... I find it all amusing. None of its racial. Its all conducted with class. Good job, CF
lol, what ass crack are you pulling all of this out of? Last time I checked there was no way to tell the ethnicity of posters, so what possible source can you have for drawing these conclusions?
For the last time!! Ariza does not suck! Ariza was forced into being the go-to guy due to injured Yao and T-mac!! He had to take more shots than he was used to and the Rockets were aware of that when they signed him. In those last 2 months you saw what he was capable of when he got a go-to guy. For some odd reason, people tend to overlook that part. If either Yao, T-mac or Martin would have played all of last season, Ariza would be a hero on this here board.
Really? We all know Carl Herrera is the white BimaThug. And DD (DaDakota) is the black DoD (Dr of Dunk).
This is my last post in this thread since it's gotten so ridiculous. Lol, people are now playing the race card and combining it with obscure stats to defend Battier? Hilarious! To be fair, it's mainly just one poster (AroundTheWorld), who has admitted he doesn't know much about basketball and his posts show it. I think everybody should ignore his childish and immature comments. I would absolutely take the championship role players (Ariza & Jax) on my team over Battier. He usually has a positive impact on the overall success of most teams he's been on. If you don't remember, let me refresh your memory. He was the third leading scored on the 2002-2003 SA Spurs championship team. Hitting a lot of big shots and playing very well in the playoffs on his way to winning a ring. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html Helped the Pacers reach the playoffs both years he was there. He destroyed the Mavs (a #1 seed that had won 67 games) in the first round in the elimination game: <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHSguZbGK0w?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHSguZbGK0w?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> Can or will Shane Battier ever do something like this? He had 12 chances and couldn't even help the Memphis Grizzlies win one playoff game. Jax also led the Bobcats to the playoffs. Looking back at all this, it seems that Jax deserves the 8 page article in the NY Times, not Battier lol. Larsv8 brought up an isolated incident when a player was playing hurt/injured. Look above to see Jackson's body of work in the playoffs and compare it to Shane's. Actually, don't, because there is no comparison. Every year when Battier's Grizzlies made the playoffs, they were swept...0-12. You would think a "no-stats all-star" would be able to help them win at least one game. You, larsv8, and the many other Battier only fans obviously have no problem with the clear implication in the NY Times propaganda piece that gives Battier practically all credit for the Grizzlies transforming into a 50 win playoff team, but completely ignores the fact they never won a playoff game, ever. At the very least that is circular logic and at most, it's being dishonest. Now Iguodala (since you brought him up) has actually stepped up and performed well in the playoffs, even on the road (where Battier is particularly terrible), winning a game for his team: <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dwFz0OF9Amk?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dwFz0OF9Amk?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> Then again, Iggy and Jax were never the subject of an 8 page article in the NY Times giving them all the credit for their team's success and none of the blame for their team's failures. That is propaganda at its finest. This is what you and larsv8 can't comprehend. There's no comparison. See my reply above. Your metaphor is garbage. You're equating Battier's "accomplishments" in Memphis to curing disease all over the world except for in one village. Lol, absolutely ridiculous. See my responses above, but, again, I'll just add that if you want to give Battier credit for the Grizzlies making the playoffs, you also have to give him "credit" for them being swept every year they made the playoffs...0-12...while Jax has helped his teams win playoff series and even a championship. Now I know why you usually never stick around to debate an issue. I'm glad you did, because if you ran away like you normally do, we would not have gotten this absolute gem: Lol, even some of his most ardent supporters called you out on this bs. To top it off, you want to prepare a highlight package for us, haha. Thank you for the new sig. This is the problem with the blind Battier fans, they essentially admit that they are in denial, support one player, and want to see him play significant mins whether or not it's to the detriment of the team. Personally, I think and am hoping that Battier is part of a package deal for Iguodala that gets the Rockets under the luxury tax (since that is obviously a goal of the front office). Something along these lines with a draft pick possibly thrown in to sweeten the deal if necessary: I'll leave by saying that any team that plays Battier around 30 mpg will never win a championship.
I posted this in another thread, but it needs to be said here too: If you look at the Rockets most effective 5 man units, Battier is almost ALWAYS on the top ones. Last year's best lineup with Shane and without Trevor had a win percentage of 88.8% It was: Brooks Martin Battier Scola Hayes And you are replacing Hayes with a better player... in Yao...... It is fairly obvious that Shane had a much better impact than Trevor. DD
correct me if i am wrong but wasnt the ariza signing made AFTER tmacs potential career ending surgery and after it was known that yao will miss the year?? how was he forced into a role when he said he wanted to go to the team where he was more of the man .. and rockets signed him as a go to guy?
Thanks for the translation ... so now that apparently the "black" posters and "white" posters have had their say .. should we now get opinions of other races too say the hispanics and asians?? frankly, generalizing in terms of race is pointless and making it seem like only two races exist when it comes to this website and the city in general is downright insulting to the other races ..
Kwame can use a million words to sugarcoat it, but his hate for Battier is so irrational and crazy that it is hard to explain with anything else. In contrast to Kwame, leebigez actually makes some decent posts when it is not about Battier.
Because most fans who actually watch basketball understood that Trevor Ariza was not a #1 or #2 option type guy. Hell, that should have been obvious by the fact that we only signed him to the MLE. What stars do you see in the league walking around with MLE deals? When he said he wanted to expand his game -- don't you think he could have been referring to not wanting to come off the bench and only play 25 minutes a night? Ariza is a good player whose probably making about what he's worth. People hated him because they expected Kobe and got Battier-lite. When we acquired Martin and Ariza was pushed into a more comfortable role, he excelled.. including putting up a triple double at the season's end. I have no doubt that he would have been even better this year with Yao returning and having a year to get comfortable in Adelman's offense. No, he'll never be a great shooter like Courtney Lee can hopefully bring. But he's a young, scrappy player who plays hard, causes havoc on the defensive side of the ball and is starting to realize what he can and cannot do offensively. We haven't had a wing who can do what he does off the drive in a long time. I think he'll struggle again in New Orleans if they expect him to be their #2 scorer, but he's a great fourth or fifth option and certainly worth his contract.
I don't know who expected Trevor to be a star, I think most people knew he was a role player from the jump. The issue with Trevor is not what we thought, but apparently HE thought he was a star, and tried to carry the team, and basically sucked at it. If he would have come in and played the team game from the get go, and increased his role over time, I doubt anyone would care. But, he came in with a Captain entitlement chip on his shoulder and had a piss poor attitude, lost his cool, and the confidence of his point guard (desevedly so) and had to rally once another better player came to the team in Martin. Trevor is what he is, a decent role player, who needs a good set up guy to really thrive. He was not ever going to get that in Houston, and the team did themselves a favor by getting rid of him. They brought him in on a trial balloon and let him find his limits....then traded him to a team that can utilize him more than Houston. The Rockets are better off and so is Trevor...... Good trade and good riddance. DD
DD, you are the king of hyperboles which makes having a relevant argument with you hard since you often backtrack and say, "well I wasn't serious about that!" That said, from the moment he was signed and got into camp, Morey and Adelman were asking him to take on a much bigger role than he's ever had. THEY asked HIM to help carry the load offensively; don't you remember when he was struggling to shoot in the beginning, Adelman/Morey were constantly reinforcing the idea in his head to take the shot if it's there? I remember Morey being on the radio several times telling fans that Ariza is doing the things they want him to and is about where they expect him to be on a development level -- this was in response to fans complaining about Ariza's shooting. Your point guard is supposed to make those around him better players, not isolate certain players in favor of others. On the video that you're obviously referring to, a lot of times Ariza was wide open and correct in calling for the ball. In the same video, Ariza often willingly gave up the ball to Brooks to lead the fast break. Trevor never refused to pass the ball to other players who were open or in a better position to score -- but it seems you're admitting the Rockets PG did. I hope that's not true. It's funny to me when people say he has a bad attitude. When he was on the Lakers, that was called swagger. But now that he's on the playoff-less Rockets, it's suddenly a bad attitude. That's one thing this team doesn't have -- attitude. Who are the two teams you see most often in the NBA Finals? The Lakers and Celtics. You could go up and down both of those rosters and find "punks" and guys with "bad attitudes" -- but when you're winning, it's called swagger. Kobe elbowed Battier when he was on the ground, Fisher knocked out Scola, Pierce is always getting into arguments and KG is one of the most intense/trash-talking players you'll find. I'm of the belief that you NEED that attitude, that swagger, to be a championship team. Maybe winning breeds it.. I'm not really sure. But I don't see it with the current group of Rockets. I don't think it's a coincidence that the last time we got out of the first round, it was because of a player whose had one of the worst attitudes of all time -- Ron Artest. But then again, when we beat Portland and were battling the Lakers, that was just toughness/swagger, not attitude. I agree that Trevor is what he is -- I think he'll improve some, but no great leaps. I think he's best suited as being the fourth of fifth option on a team, where his slashing skills can be best utilized. He's best when he's being active, not roaming around the 3-point line. Like I said, he's worth what he's being paid. He wasn't signed to a bad contract, that's what you pay players of Ariza's caliber. Hell, he probably would have gotten even more than that if he were on the open market this summer. I don't understand the hatred for Ariza -- good riddance? He never asked out, never talked bad about the city, fans or his teammates. You should appreciate the guy a little more than that for busting his @ss last year to help a bad team become respectable. Love him or hate him, I never once thought he was mailing it in or not giving us his full effort. I can appreciate that, even if he didn't work out as some fans envisioned.
Hell yeah Good riddance, he made the Rockets team worse......so move his sorry butt on...... I can appreciate the effort much like I appreciated Ryan Bowen's effort, doesn't mean I want him on my team. This team has gotten better every single year.....I never liked the Ariza signing, still don't but he was an asset and maybe Morey planned to use him as such all along. In that case, I guess I have to tip my hat to him. As for Swagger.....yeah...swag all you want when you can actually dribble the ball or make a shot...... Otherwise, work on the fundamentals that you see most other players being able to do. Do I think he was overpaid? Yes....as evidenced by the fact the Lakers failed to offer him the same contract......and they were coming off a world championship. Telling, no? DD
No, not really. The Cavs were offering a similar or greater contract and the Rockets "smartest GM on the planet who never overpays" offered him the contract he's on. He was also in the top four of who Morey gets calls for. And New Orleans gave up Darren Collison to get him. All that is more telling to me, IMO. And I'll root for every Rocket that busts his butt for the team. Ryan Bowen was a scrub, but I have no ill feelings toward him. I certainly wouldn't say "good riddance" if he left, I'd just shrug my shoulders. Your comments point to a deeper hatred/vendetta against Ariza that I don't understand. Oh well, to each his own.
