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The state of the republican party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Amazing how blatantly they are doing this. btw, the president of codeninjas has no election experience...
     
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  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    So Cyber Ninjas ended up tampering with the machines?
     
  3. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    That is my understanding.
    Of course you can stop someone by tackling them. That is not what is at issue. The issue is if it is more difficult to maneuver around people simply standing around in a vehicle or on foot. If you are being attacked through the window of your car and there are people in the road ahead and behind, you have no avenue of escape. This law is meant to address that. Normal self-defense would cover people intentionally trying to hold you in place while someone is attacking you.
    No. This would be the change in the law. That you are allowed to try to drive away when attacked, even if there are people in the way.
    It doesn't collectivize guilt. All of the people, in order to be part of the riot, would be participants in the riot. I have routinely referred to all of the people who went into the Capitol as rioters. Their criminal liability would be determined by their individual actions. If three people are rioting and 200 are standing around chanting I can't breathe, there are only 3 rioters, and they are guilty by their own actions.
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    keeping hope alive...

     
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  5. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    The grift continues. What a loser!!!!!
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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    interesting piece about Mitt Romney

    https://theweek.com/articles/980432/mitt-romney-republican-sphinx

    excerpt:

    So again, that question: Who is Mitt Romney? Is he Trumpism without Trump? An opportunist trying to make amends after his impeachment votes? The heir to the Rockefeller Republicans? A protocol droid who keeps getting hacked from different directions?

    Perhaps a little of each. But there's another strand in there too that's worth mentioning. It dates back to Romney's term as governor of Massachusetts when he decided to work with Democrats on statewide universal health care. "Romney was intrigued with it because of the personal responsibility aspects," Jonathan Gruber, a professor at MIT who assisted with the effort, told the Boston Globe. To Romney, requiring people to purchase health insurance wasn't an onerous government mandate so much as a way for individuals to take charge of themselves and stop free-riding off of the state.

    The resulting law, RomneyCare, a government program ostensibly in the service of conservative ends, does more to explain Mitt Romney than anything else. The man is neither a libertarian nor a nationalist; he's a compassionate conservative in the mold of George W. Bush. He believes ardently in personal responsibility, competitive markets, family values. But he also believes that government, so long as it's manned by virtuous statesmen, can be a partner in these efforts rather than a zero-sum adversary. The state can help do good within certain fiscal and constitutional limits, whether on behalf of single mothers struggling to pay hospital bills or Afghanis trembling before the Taliban.

    This strain has a long history on the right. Now it's surfaced again among the Trumpists, though grounded in notions of class and nation rather than self-reliance and noblesse oblige. Romney is where the old guard and the new thinking meet. The question now is whether voters are onboard for another round of big-government idealism.
    more at the link
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    So how is that not a change in the standard of self-defense that lethal force can now be used against someone who isn't directly a lethal threat?
    Reread the what I wrote you originally responded to, "Do you really believe that it is harder for a crowd of people to block in a person on foot than a person in a car?"
    The key term there is "block" as in stop or impede someone's motion. For example "The right tackle put a block on the linebacker". You're putting in some qualifier about maneuverability that wasn't brought up to a simple question.
    By what you stated above normal self-defense would cover people trying to hold you in place while someone is attacking you.

    So taking just what you've said this law is either redundant or problematic that it does change the standard of self-defense or quite possibly both.
    The law says this:
    https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/1/BillText/er/PDF
    "(1) It is unlawful for a person, assembled with two or 379 more other persons and acting with a common intent, to use force 380 or threaten to use imminent force, to compel or induce, or 381 attempt to compel or induce, another person to do or refrain 382 from doing any act or to assume, abandon, or maintain a 383 particular viewpoint against his or her will."
    Under that law if we applied it to what happened at the US Capitol anyone there changing "Hang Mike Pence" or "Stop the Steal" would be criminally liable under the threat of imminent force to compel or induce another person. So in terms of individual actions yes they individually chose to chant "Hang Mike Pence" but that only applies to this law if collectively more than three are doing so and at that point all of those chanting so can be charged whether or not they actually could get to Mike Pence or not.
     
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  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Because legally, that is not what standard means. The standard to use self-defense is that you apprehend an imminent harmful or offensive touching. The standard to use lethal force in self-defense is that you apprehend imminent great bodily injury or death. Under current law, when the standard has been met, you are allowed to use the appropriate amount of force against the attacker. Under the new law, the standard would be the same, but your allowed responses would be increased to drive away without regard to people standing in front of your car. It is just an issue of the wording. The standard is the same, it is the allowable responses once the standard has been met that have changed.
    [quote[Reread the what I wrote you originally responded to, "Do you really believe that it is harder for a crowd of people to block in a person on foot than a person in a car?"
    A fallen tree can block my car. To block doesn't require intentionality or coordination. The people protesting in the street may not even know you are being attacked. That is why I brought up the issue of maneuverability. If you are on foot and someone attacks you, you can run through a crowd without running people over. In that way, it is easier to block a car that is not allowed to hit you than a person that is just not allowed to injure you.
    You are ignoring the possibility of protesters being in the way of your car when you are attacked without intentionally trying to impede you. That is what the law addresses, making it neither redundant nor changing the standard.
    Yes, this misdemeanor for Mob Intimidation requires that you participate in a mob. I don't think ONLY chanting "Stop the Steal" would apply, you would have to be using force or threatening force to intimidate people into acceding to that goal. Hang Mike Pence may work, depending on how narrowly the jury reads the word imminent. I wouldn't personally say that violence against Mike Pence was imminent as no one chanting that had ready access to Mike Pence, but being with hundreds of people with the same goal in the same building as the man could be enough. That is not collective guilt though, because each would be punished according to their own actions. Collective guilt requires non-participants be punished because they are members of a group.
     
    #489 StupidMoniker, May 2, 2021 at 1:10 PM
    Last edited: May 2, 2021 at 3:10 PM
  10. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    .........this debate bores me.
     
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  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    She'll be out of her chair spot in a matter of weeks because of this.
     
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  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I don't believe this is random timing at all. Right now already all of the major donors are having meetings with each other and high ranking GOP leaders on who they are backing for 2024. I guarantee you this is a power play to try and wedge a small group of financial backers to fund one way or another or shift money away from Trump's pac. I see this as a pretty clear warning that their voters are not going to turnout in 2018, and the "BigLie" campaign is going to be a bust for 2022. All data and polling geeks probably are showing them turnout data and Georgia's runoff Senate election is a big red flag.

    When she says "poisoning our Democracy" I read that as... our voters are not going to turnout in 2022 and it's going to be a sh$tshow of an election for the GOP.
     
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  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Maybe. But there are plenty of people who are in the same position she is in to see the same data and they are basically all taking Trump's side. I think there is no future for national party members if they don't take Trump's position.
     
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  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I think she was out before this...
     
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  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    It's hard for cons to take the populist position when Biden admin is throwing out trillion dollar proposals every other month.

    The only thing cons can do is whine about the debt they helped massively inflate.

    I guess by taking Trump's side, it's go ugly or go home.
     
    #496 Invisible Fan, May 3, 2021 at 3:23 PM
    Last edited: May 3, 2021 at 5:04 PM
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  17. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Contributing Member

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  18. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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  19. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Did someone take her GED exam for her? She doesn't even know how to use an apostrophe. I knew her critical skill processing was lacking, but this post is a fine example. Even a child can understand the concept that vaccinated people are at less risk of passing Covid to each other than unvaccinated children.

     
  20. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Jesus why does Biden and his wife look like they are grownups in a toy house??

    How small are the Carters and did they get their furniture built mini??
     
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