1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. LIVE WATCH EVENT
    The NBA Draft is here! Come join Clutch in the ClutchFans Room Wednesday night at 6:30pm CT as we host the live online NBA Draft Watch Party. Who will the Rockets select at #3?

    NBA Draft - LIVE!

The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,756
    Likes Received:
    25,677
    An 18 year old will possess firearms when joining the military, but can't own them until 21?
     
  2. edwardc

    edwardc Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,627
    Likes Received:
    7,912
    And that's the sad part of it all these companies are making a killing and will not pay their workers a higher wage.
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  3. edwardc

    edwardc Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,627
    Likes Received:
    7,912
    And that's the sad part of it all these companies are making a killing and will not pay their workers a higher wage.
     
    mdrowe00 and Nook like this.
  4. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    87,940
    Likes Received:
    86,698
    You get training in the military.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    55,282
    Likes Received:
    43,636
    You’re also not allowed to take your military issued weapons when not in duty.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    55,282
    Likes Received:
    43,636
    Those things can be done without an amendment to the Constitution. It would be harder to get a new amendment than getting states an the federal
    Government to make those laws
     
    Nook likes this.
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    73,438
    Likes Received:
    111,648
    I believe this is Newsom simply showboating in preparation for an eventual run for President, either in 2024 or 2028
     
    Invisible Fan and rocketsjudoka like this.
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    48,451
    Likes Received:
    37,244
    Really cringe
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    48,451
    Likes Received:
    37,244
    Median income in 2020 is 39,000. So I would assume somewhere between 25% and 50%.
     
    Nook likes this.
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    48,451
    Likes Received:
    37,244
    An 18 year does not own a firearm when they join the military. We did field training and then immediately went back to the armory where we sat at benches cleaning our weapons for like 3 hours because armorers hated us and then immediately handed them back. We had little to no agency with our weapon issued to us. Only when deployed do we carry it with us at all times akin to a personal firearm but that's a foreign country. 18 year olds can **** up their ****. That's okay.

    Edit: just want to add even when we did field ops for a week or two in the woods of Southern Coastal North Carolina we never walked around with live ammunition and where handed ammunition right before a live fire training exercise. If we did training that simulated multi day engagements entrenched in our fighting holes we get blank rounds to stimulate combat. Only when deployed to Afghanistan did we actually walk around 24/7 with a rifle with live ammo on us.


    In other words, the govt definitely doesn't trust 18 year olds with firearms with live ammunition amongst a American civilian population.
     
    #1610 fchowd0311, Jun 8, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
    Invisible Fan and rocketsjudoka like this.
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    55,282
    Likes Received:
    43,636
    Yeah I think so too
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    55,282
    Likes Received:
    43,636
    I was watching a documentary about US military jungle training and most of the time they were carrying dummy weapons called Rubber Duckies. Only on the last day of training were they given actual weapons and then only issued blanks.

    These weren’t even raw recruits but people who had already been in the military for years.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,756
    Likes Received:
    25,677
    We send 18 year olds for training to do the exact same thing that a clause in Newsoms amendment wants to discourage, only so they can do it when deployed to a faraway land.

    Most of these psycho school shooters never bought their guns.

    Placing an age ban on adults for one item and enshrining it in the constitution is a head scratcher.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    48,451
    Likes Received:
    37,244
    I agree. It doesn't make sense as a constitutional right. Hence the "really cringe" post.
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    73,438
    Likes Received:
    111,648
    Are liberal social activists driving voters to the GOP?

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4053960-are-liberal-social-activists-driving-voters-to-the-gop/

    excerpt:

    Moderate Democrats giving Republicans high marks on having a common-sense approach to governing and Americans being less likely to call themselves social liberals point to a Democratic Party in trouble with mainstream voters because of a relatively small number of liberal social activists.

    The general values that drove greater acceptance of once taboo topics like same-sex marriage and abortion are still prevalent today. Gallup identified a lack of consideration, tolerance, and respect as the most important problem with the state of moral values in America last year, which is the same problem that topped concerns in 2012. Successful persuasion on sensitive social topics traditionally used these themes to change hearts and minds.

    But those approaches seem to have been dropped in favor of in-your-face activism that demonizes those who have reservations or questions. Even the White House agrees — today’s top liberal social activists don’t show respect or consideration for others. It is already driving voters to change the way they label themselves. It may just drive a whole segment of moderate voters to pull the lever for Republicans.
    more at the link
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    73,438
    Likes Received:
    111,648
    https://reason.com/volokh/2023/06/1...nths-in-prison-for-threatening-congresswoman/

    FREE SPEECH
    Man Sentenced to 15 Months in Prison for Threatening Congresswoman
    EUGENE VOLOKH | 6.18.2023 8:01 AM

    According to the Indictment in U.S. v. Comiskey, the defendant Tweeted, about Rep. Lauren Boebert,

    • "If I ever saw Lauren I'd be glad to take her out and go to prison. Would be job well done."
    • "Don't worry Lauren, someone is coming soon to show your face the 2nd amendment in practice with a copper jacket. Enjoy."
    • "Someone needs to put Lauren down like a sick dog. She is a true waste of life! Someone exercise their 2nd amendment right to her face! Since the @CIA is a failure and @FBI is incompetent at charging her for being a terrorist it's time to do it ourselves! Pew pew Lauren."
    • "I got my 2 amendment tool all ready to destroy Lauren's face! Hopefully in front of her kids."
    • "[D]on't come to Florida us libs have big guns here and we stand out [sic] ground. Take you down like Trayvon."
    Defendant pleaded guilty (and was sentenced Monday), so we don't have more detailed facts about the context here. But on its face, these do indeed seem like constitutionally unprotected "true threats" of criminal conduct. And the court agreedthat the indictment sufficiently alleged true threats, despite defendant's argument "that two of the Twitter posts contain conditional statements, while another does not indicate that Defendant 'personally' threatened to shoot the Representative."

    Annika Marie Miranda, Karla Albite & Yara Klukas represent the government.



     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    55,282
    Likes Received:
    43,636
    There might be something to that but given the results of the 2022 election it seems more like GOP culture war efforts like restricting abortion are driving moderate Republican voters to Democrats.
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    73,438
    Likes Received:
    111,648
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/06/the-daily-chart-dems-move-to-the-left.php

    POSTED ON JUNE 19, 2023 BY STEVEN HAYWARD IN THE DAILY CHART
    THE DAILY CHART: DEMS MOVE TO THE LEFT

    Pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies has gone back through 30 years worth of NBC News polling to unearth some interesting trends in the movement of the two parties over time. I may well draw from this copious report for the entire week, but let’s start with these two. The first shows that Democrats have moved to left, contrary to the media/DNC refrain that it is Republicans who are radical:

    ezgif-2-eac4d3e84c.jpg

    The second displays the increasing secularization of Democrats:

    ezgif-2-59ad5f7415.jpg


    discussing this report:

    https://pos.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Deep-Dive-on-Issues-Short-Deck-d1g.pdf


     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    73,438
    Likes Received:
    111,648
    https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/06/20/this-kind-of-lawfare-is-evil-n559091

    This kind of lawfare is evil
    DAVID STROM
    8:01 AM on June 20, 2023

    In March 1770 John Adams took one of the toughest legal cases of his career.

    On March 5th, in a riot that went terribly wrong, 5 colonists were shot by British troops who were protecting another British soldier who was being pelted with rocks and other assorted junk by a crowd. One of the soldiers was struck by a thrown bat and fell. His musket discharged and what occurred next is known to us now as the Boston Massacre. No order to fire had ever been given.

    John Adams was the only lawyer willing to take the case on behalf of the soldiers who were being tried for murder. He did so because he believed that everybody was entitled to representation and that just as nobody was above the law, nobody was below it either.

    Eight soldiers, one officer, and four civilians were arrested and charged with murder. Six of the soldiers were acquitted; the other two were convicted of manslaughter and given reduced sentences.

    How times have changed. In today’s United States, a lawyer can become a celebrity for representing O.J. Simpson, but if you represent a former President of the United States be prepared to be attacked by your fellow lawyers and be driven out of the profession.

    That is the mission of The 65 Project, which is managed by former Perkins Coie attorney Michael Teter.

    Perkins Coie is the Democrat Mega law firm that represents everybody who is anybody in Democrat politics: the Democratic National Committee, Democratic Leadership Council, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Other political clients include most Democratic members of the United States Congress. It has also represented several presidential campaigns, including those of John Kerry, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton. The group’s political law practice was founded by Robert Bauer who recruited Marc Elias and made him chair of the group in 2009.

    Basically, Perkins Coie IS the legal arm of the Democrat Party. This basically implies that for all intents and purposes, so is the 65 Project.

    The Washington Post, for example, quoted various anonymous sources who claimed that Trump’s reputation as a “challenging client” caused several prominent lawyers to turn him down. In reality, the problem resulted from an intimidation campaign by a radical pressure group called the 65 Project, whose explicit mission is to ruin any lawyer willing to represent Trump.

    According to Influence Watch, the group was founded by former Clinton administration official Melissa Moss and its managing director is former Perkins Coie attorney Michael Teter. It gets worse: “The 65 Project’s Senior Advisor is David Brock, the founder of Media Matters for America and American Bridge 21st Century.” The group initially went after 111 attorneys in 26 states for representing Trump or questioning the irregularities associated with the 2020 election. They included Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, and Harvard Law Professor Emeritus Alan Dershowitz. The latter described how the 65 Project has intimidated potential Trump lawyers in a recent Substack column:

    They have threatened to file bar charges against any such lawyers. When these threats first emerged, I wrote an op-ed offering to defend pro bono any lawyers that The 65 Project goes after. So The 65 Project immediately went after me, and contrived a charge based on a case in which I was a constitutional consultant, but designed to send a message to potential Trump lawyers: if you defend Trump or anyone associated with him, we will target you and find something to charge you with. The lawyers to whom I spoke are fully aware of this threat — and they are taking it seriously.
    Think about that for a moment. Already the Democrats have weaponized the Justice Department, the IRS, the Intelligence Community, and the FBI to go after conservatives disproportionately, while obviously laying off investigations that implicate Democrats. It’s pretty hard to even challenge that assertion, given the fact that a conservative showing up to a school board meeting can be labeled a terrorist by the FBI, or a reporter testifying to Congress can have the IRS show up at his door.

    Now the Left is trying to strip conservatives of legal representation as well.

    Nice legal practice you have there. Shame if we were to strip you of your license to practice law…

    A typical example of the group’s tactics can be found in its attack on Georgia attorney Kurt Hilbert. As recently as February of 2023, Teter wrote to the State Bar of Georgia requesting an investigation into Hilbert pursuant to his representation of Trump and other plaintiffs in four lawsuits resulting from the state’s incompetent management of the 2020 election. “We write to request that the Office of General Counsel investigate the actions taken by Kurt Hilbert relating to his effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election.” Such ethics complaints, no matter how spurious, inevitably lead to protracted inquiries that damage the reputations of their targets regardless of whether or not the charges possess any genuine merit.

    This is, of course, the point. Many lawyers will think twice before inviting an ethics complaint by representing disfavored clients. The resultant chilling effect has now spread to other GOP candidates in races unrelated to 2020. Kari Lake, for example, had difficulty retaining attorneys when she contested the 2022 Arizona gubernatorial results. Bloomberg quotes her thus: “We had attorneys who did walk away because the left is threatening them with their ability to make a living and practice law.” The 65 Project filed an ethics complaint against Kurt B. Olsen, who represented Lake in two lawsuits pursuant to her 2022 race. The following excerpt is typical of the inflammatory language used in these complaints:

    Mr. Olsen attempted to overturn the 2020 election and now seeks to overturn the 2022 Arizona midterm. A full investigation by the Office of Bar Counsel will demonstrate the egregious nature of Mr. Olsen’s actions, especially when considered in light of his purposes, the direct and possible consequences of his behavior, and the serious risk that Mr. Olsen will repeat such conduct unless disciplined. This supplemental complaint demonstrates that Mr. Olsen is already a repeat offender of the Rules of Professional Conduct, and can only be stopped through disciplinary action.
    One can disagree with Trump, even believing he is likely guilty as charged, without working overtime to ensure that his right to counsel is stripped from him or other conservatives.

    That is, you can believe that he deserves representation if you believe in the rule of law, which these people clearly do not.

    They believe in lawfare, of course, but that is simply using the legal system as a club with which to beat your opponents silly. It is the opposite of what we expect the legal system to be legitimately used for. If the only goal that is worth achieving is total victory over those with whom you disagree, it would simply be easier to cut to the chase and steal what you want and kill who you hate.

    But we live in a civilized society with rules, and one of those rules is that everybody gets a fair shake in the legal system. That fair shake is never perfect, but it is our job to make it more rather than less perfect.

    Perkins Coie has never seen it that way. They play to win, fair or foul.

    Throw in David Brock and you have as much sleaze as you can imagine.

    I prefer the old way. The John Adams way. And I prefer to live in an America where John Adams can represent British soldiers hated by the crowd, get them off, and still become President of the United States.

    Call me an idealist, but there it is.​
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    55,282
    Likes Received:
    43,636
    Or maybe Trump has a hard time getting legal representation because he has a long record of saying incriminating things, not listening to his lawyers and not paying them.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now