The state of the democratic party

I believe he is a conservative who can't bring himself to side with the lunatics in the Republican party and wishes the Democrats would abandon all progressive causes and represent people like him. Just my opinion, but he is focusing on the wrong side. It is clear that his conservative politics fit better with the Republican side of the aisle, and that's the party he should be trying to fix. Honestly, the Republican party needs more people who are like him but also are actually willing to sideline the wackos.

 

He doesn’t need excuses.

 

Man! Great end to the half!

 

Oh I know. I don’t really hold it against Manchin like I do Sinema who has no reason to act like she needs to cater to Republicans who would never vote for her anyways. Manchin gets a ton of MAGA crossover votes in his state so Dems just have to realize he’s not really a Democrat other than a few issues like protecting social security, healthcare, and unions. But yeah he’s a big reason why little has gotten done and that’s just the facts. However as a party making a case for itself you really can’t run on that fact because you’ll sound whiny and taking no responsibility.

Dems are in a tough spot no doubt. Republicans are making it way closer of a race in 22 than it should be.

 

I don't see how he is not really a Democrat.

There have always been Democrats like him and there are a large number of democratic voters who are like him.

What's a "real" Democrat anyway?

 

Somebody just trying to get eyeballs by punching up on Twitter.

Did she really say Biden is telling women to go **** themselves?

Nothing gains attention like outrage.

 

I think there are some fundamental principles that he’s probably misaligned on. The big one being climate and the relationship with fossil fuel billionaires. Yes other Dem reps have taken money in the past and yes I’m sure many who work for fossil fuel companies are Dem voters, but it is a core mission of the party going forward. I myself grew up in a house where the fossil fuel industry employed my dad and paid for many of the benefits in life I enjoyed. So there’s always nuances but there are core missions moving forward and I see Manchin as misaligned in a major way.

Plus you can use Manchins own words to make the case. Many times during the filibuster/build back better debate Manchin himself said he’s not a Liberal and is a Conservative. He has said he feels like a man without a party and has thought about switching to independent.

So I take the man at his word that he’s not really aligned with the party on many issues, but there are some that still keep him using the title and there are plenty of single issue voters that are conservative like him that the Democratic Party should be making a case to for them to vote for them even if they aren’t pure liberal progressives. Biggest point being Democracy itself. If you want to guarantee that everyone will have a say so moving forward, you might not like Democrats on some issues, but at least you’ll have the ability to vote for or against them in the future. You throw your lot in with this GOP and they have all but told you they are all for overturning elections if they have the power to do so.

That message alone SHOULD BE enough to get the attention of the folks that might be more Joe Manchin than AOC. Still… it doesn’t mean that we gotta agree with them on some big issues. The Democrats have to turn out their own base and elect enough real liberals in order to actually pass progressive legislation. You can get Manchin type voters and get Congressmen/women elected but you can’t rely on them to actually get Democratic Party priorities done.

So the answer is make progressive policy more popular so you can get more progressives elected and the Joe Manchins will be less of an issue and maybe the Joe Manchins will have a home in a truly Conservative party in the future that is healthier and actually isn’t trying to install a corrupt autocracy.

At least that’s sort of the fantasy moving forward. That the Joe Manchins and the Mitt Romney types have a place and a party to be a check on liberals being too liberal in a Democratic way. Not Manchin and Romney being checks on liberals in a way that allows a fascist right wing party to take power and never leave. Manchin being a check on the party within the party right now on something as vital as voting rights is the very definition of not being able to read the room.

 

People have noy been on board with everything in The Party platform all the time I don't see how that defines if they are a Democrat or not.

Manchin is up for voting rights he is just not up for that particular legislation and everything else that is tacked on.

https://www.vox.com/22434054/joe-ma...ple-john-lewis-preclearance-filibuster-senate

Which illustrates my point that most of the people who **** on Manchin want him to vote the way they want and can't understand he looks at things differently than them.

What's wrong with being more conservative about things the entire party does not have to be so progressive.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a more conservative Democrat at all. I think that would be welcome, and I think there are more than some might think like Mark Kelly. I even like Angus King who isn't even a Democrat but is associated more as one because he doesn't cause problems on the big fundamental bills that Manchin and Sinema grandstand about. There are some things that are pretty much universally seen as a crisis that you gotta step up to the plate and deal with, and Joe Manchin has shown himself to be more concerned with the filibuster than he is Democracy.

There's supposed to be a vote at some point to tighten up the language on the Electoral Count Act that'll help secure the ability for Republicans in states to throw a presidential election. I assume there won't be 10 Republicans total that vote for this, and the filibuster will need to be broken. I think, even for this small small ask to potentially save a Constitutional crisis, it'll tell us all we need to know about Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema to see if they really care about some pretty basic fundamental values of the Democratic party, or if the filibuster is what they seemingly care most about to protect their donors who are freaked about it going away.

To me it has less to do with their leanings as Conservative Democrats as much as it is about how it shows that they are kind bought and sold off to special interests who get them to demand being the center of attention for the debate on a big bill, refuse to show what they will or won't negotiate on, and then revel in killing the bill after never saying what they would or wouldn't change, and just hide behind the filibuster excuse.

What those two did during the Build Back Better negotiations was appalling. It's everything that people who hate politics hate about politicians. What those two did actually became a massive representation of the Democratic party to independent or fair-weather voters who rarely vote. They saw that mess, and said "See... the Democrats don't care either, and DC is a mess where nobody really wants to get anything done."

So I get that its a good thing for the Democratic Party to have diversity, but holy crap, how are we going to just glance over what those two did and continue to do to the party in the process? It's not about being conservative at all. It's about getting stuff done in good faith. I don't see a ton of good faith, and I see a ton of special interests, and big donor money influence that makes the party look just as bad as Republicans.

 

I think being concerned with the fillibuster is being concerned with democracy, heaven forbid the Republicans get control and have no fillibuster check.

I don't think the Electoral Count act is something that democracy is dependent on, if people just actually go out and vote democracy will be fine.

Nobody is glancing over anything I just don't think those 2 have done much to stop party progress thier have been a lot of things done since Biden has been president I don't know why ignore that, Sinema and Manchin have voted for democratic legislation far more than than the things you have issues with.

They should not be judged just because they have not voted for everything you want.

The party is nowhere near as bad as the Republicans the fact that you think this is why the Democratic party will never have the strength of the Republican party, it always got to be perfect with Democrats.

 

I suspect Dems will start hitting jackpots with charismatic white dudes who are unapologetically populist.

A 50yr old test tube baby with Trump and Sanders dna and the tongue of John Stewart.

The party seems to be at a breaking point for consolidation and decisive leadership. Gen Zers are more forceful of their values but don't have the numbers to overwrite them.

Getting a good tongue to placate them and rope in more Hispanics is their holy grail. I'm not sure how middle america falls into this.

 

With how Gen Z is "terrifying millennial managers", isn't it more like Titanomachy?

 

Jon Stewart should run for President