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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  2. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    https://www.wvnews.com/news/wvnews/...cle_2ca94712-46e7-11ec-853e-3b947a5f34de.html


    74% of west virgians agree with Manchin's decision but by all means tell me about how west virgians really love the bill.
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I'd give Manchin a vote of respect despite him being an old fossil...baron.

    If things close down more in 2022 (flip a coin folks), Biden gonna roll his sleeves like Trump did early this year and last to helipcopter half the **** BBB wanted to include (semi-)permanently.

    What a ****ing joke. One for the self inflicted wound dems pull over optics (it wasn't a loss until they made it one). Two, for the cynical grab to take political credit for these unending gifts that would more than likely be the first to be helicopter out as relief under any president under the pretense of another emergency lockdown.

    Or maybe they really thought Covid was a Trump catalyzed disaster that "Only Dems can solve". That's also likely, but the old Pelosis out there had to have known we'd plop another T or two if NY shutdowns we have now spread to city from city.
     
  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    The Unnecessary Manchin Mess
    The Democrats look weak and divided when they could be touting victories.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/the-unnecessary-manchin-mess/

    excerpt:

    What the Democrats, starting with President Biden, ought to have done on January 21, 2021 was to sit down with Manchin and ask “What can you support?” If that meant Manchin basically had veto power over some Democrats’ priorities, so be it, because, ladies and gentlemen, he had it anyway, and now he has used it—except almost a year has been wasted.

    The Democrats look weak and divided as well as petty and ineffectual. They set goals that were beyond their means, and their seeming failure has become their identity. They’re being branded by what they failed to do rather than by what they did.

    This is political malpractice. The Democrats have actually passed quite a lot of legislation in the last 11 months, starting with the American Rescue Plan Act. They extended the Paycheck Protection Program, made Juneteenth a federal holiday, and passed a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill. That legislation contained a number of longtime progressive priorities, such as $39 billion for public transit, $47 billion for climate change mitigation and cyber security, $15 billion for electric vehicle charging stations, and $55 billion for upgrading water infrastructure including replacing all of the lead pipes in the nation (a matter of keen interest for poor people who are the most likely to live in places relying on old, lead pipes, which are known to cause brain damage in children).

    Whatever you think about the merits of these bills (and I have my doubts about the American Rescue Plan), these accomplishments are certainly enough to give the Democrats bragging rights. And if new reports are right, Manchin was and possibly remains willing to sign onto a $1.8 trillion spending package that includes universal pre-K fully funded for 10 years, massive allocations for climate change, and expansions of Obamacare.

    A competent political party would be taking yes for an answer, passing Manchin’s bill, and turning to more urgent priorities like cheap, abundant COVID tests, reform of the Electoral Count Act, and increasing legal immigration to cope with our severe labor shortage. There is still time, but not much.

     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    The Five Deadly Sins of the Left
    Time to Repent!

    https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/the-five-deadly-sins-of-the-left

    excerpt:

    The Future of the Left
    The year since I wrote the original essay on the Five Deadly Sins of the Left has not resulted in a sea change in the left’s attitudes embodied in these five sins. Instead, they seem just as or more entrenched than they were. This augurs a future where working class voters continue to drift away from the Left, while highly educated elites increasingly define the left’s profile. The economist Thomas Piketty has referred to this development as the rise of the “Brahmin Left.” For the Brahmin Left, the five deadly sins are virtues, since this is what the enlightened among them believe. But for the working class, as well as less ideological upscale voters, these ideas make the left less attractive.

    There is still an opening for a left that promotes universal values, a better model of capitalism, practical problem-solving on climate change, and an economy that delivers abundance for all. But the hour may be getting late. The left needs, without delay, to reject the five deadly sins and embark on a program of de-Brahminization. If they fail to do so, the left is likely to continue to decline in popularity.
    more
     
  6. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Seriously???? That is what you are going to come back with? Is reading comprehension really that difficult? When I get time tonight I’ll quote myself and lay it crystal clear. You are being propagandized and do not understand it. I am not even saying this bill is what is best for the US. Only that the individual components of the bill are extremely popular. (Even in West Virginia.
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  9. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    First off one I don't agree with Manchin's position but that said I can understand given where his state is why he would oppose BBB. While there is certainly evidence that the extension of the child care tax credit was the deal breaker for him it's not for certain that was because there are several other items that he cited.

    Second I don't feel shame or apologize for my criticism of Omar. She's said before she's for many of the items that were in the infrastructure bill and her district has many needs that are addressed by it. I know this first hand as I live it. Yet she still voted no for as you even state, political reasons. The bill only passed because MODERATE Republicans were willing to do the right thing and pass a bill that even Omar agrees are needed. Yet she was willing to gamble on that being defeated which would've likely doomed the chances of any infrastructure bill getting passed out of Congress.

    You've brought up a lot of sectarian issues, pitting Moderates versus Progressives. I fit the moderate camp but I don't speak for nor agree with all "moderates" I don't agree with Manchin and have been very frustrated with Sinema who seems far more interested in her own personal life than with being a Senator. Blaming Moderates for playing playing political games though while ignoring that Progressives by their own admission are playing games though seems pretty hypocritical. Progressives like to accuse others of undermining Biden's agenda yet putting things like the bipartisan infrastructure bill at risk because they wanted to tie it to BBB also put's Biden's agenda at risk as he had put a lot of political capital into that.

    Frankly the impression I get from many Progressives is that they would rather not have compromised bills passed so that they can righteously thunder about "mouth breathers".
     
  11. Invisible Fan

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    I heard on NPR that voters are starting to blame Dems for inflation because "they promised" it would get better later in the year.

    Now I understand Powell and Yelen repeating that it was transitory but what idiot allowed that kind of papering over to blow up into a partisan issue? Not everyone thinks those two are great. We've been dealing with the same weakness and low expectations since '08 with those two at the Fed helm so what makes anyone think they've done a great job other than pumping the stock market. Some mandate that one is...

    This is the kind of **** that makes Americans think Republicans are stronger with the economy. At least their sock puppet press secretaries know you couldn't throw money to solve supply issues that won't take another whole year to unclog (potentially because the economy contracts).

    And now Goldman is projecting a smaller GDP for next year because of BBB's failure.

    Does anyone with a half a mind among the Dems understand that means our recovery is neither strong nor natural? Do voters understand this "wasteful government spending" propped up small businesses, students, insolvent renters and lower income families in order for people to "deal with" inflated prices?

    I guess America is due to pay the Piper, but talk about all the goodwill for trillions of dollars spent amounting closer and closer to nothing in 2022. As far as I care, the infighting only drew the knife deeper. They already stabbed themselves with the stupidity and complacency from overthrowing the loser before them while thinking everyone can eat free and doing the opposite socially is all we need.
     
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  12. Major

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    This isn't quite accurate. Manchin loves the child tax credit itself - I think that's one of the parts of the bill he supports most. The bill only extended it for a year - he wants it extended longer. He wants to cut the cost of it by putting an income cap on it. He also seems to want a work requirement or some income floor on it, which I don't think Dems would agree to - but he seemed open to moving on that.

    He's very much in favor of raising taxes on the wealthy and specifically repealing the Trump tax cuts. If the bill was just repealing tax cuts and using that to pay for child tax credit, he'd be all for it. The problem is that Dems had so many things in the bill to pay for and Sinema opposed the corporate tax hikes, so the solution was to cut all these things to be 1-3 year extensions on the spending side while 10 years of revenues to pay for it to manipulate the cost structure of the bill. That's where Manchin fundamentally disagreed with the approach. In a year or two, they'd be back in this same boat except without revenue sources to pay for it, and maybe without control of the House or Senate.

    The endgame here for Biden-Manchin is potentially a new, pared down BBB that does fewer things but does them longer. Whether it can pass, who knows. A still-unknown element is where does Sinemas fit into all of this. She ruined the financing side with the previous version of BBB, so who knows what she'll go for in a re-done version. Manchin really wants to repeal Trump tax cuts; Sinema doesn't.

    Here's a longer article on the idea:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/build-back-better-joe-manchin-joe-biden_n_61c4a435e4b04b42ab699214
     
  13. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    This article is a single source without any backing of its assumptions.

    Manchin has not once come out publicly and indicated that his problem with the current BBB is the expiration of the benefits.

    Not once.

    All of his public statements indicate that his primary concern is cost, this despite the fact that he had no problem voting for the grossly wasteful defense budget. There’s also multiple sources indicating that it’s his contempt for poor people - that they‘re nothing more than drug chasing leeches - that informs his opposition to the Child Tax Credit.

    If there is any truth in this article, it’s the fact that Manchin has moved the goalposts multiple times throughout the process while remaining coy on what he actually wants. Given his actual statements and actions, it’s very clear that what he wants is to kill the bill altogether. Same goes for Sinema just for different reasons.

    This article perfectly articulated the problems with what Manchin has pulled and why rocketjudoka’s comparison of him and Omar is ridiculous.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...manchin-knifed-progressives-build-back-better
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    related

     
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  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  17. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    He said Latino
    That’s going to offend all the white people on the D&D who refer to them as LatinX
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    it's great that on these flights that aren't in the air long enough for a full length feature film they can still provide entertainment to help pass the time
     
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  19. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    She has her mask off and spewing covid when she’s yelling at this dude who clearly wants to eat his peanuts and drink his beer
     
  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    she is a great American . . . a national treasure. I hope she makes the talk show rounds soon
     

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