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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. TheresTheDagger

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    He says it more eloquently, but the video is essentially stating the left (especially the far left) needs to tone it down and if they can't do that...simply lie more effectively by couching their policies in acceptable language while not changing a thing. (The right does this too).

    Same as it ever was.
     
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ka...se-welfare-2022-11637362201?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

    The Kamikaze Democrats
    Pelosi and Biden march swing-district House Members to the end of their careers.
    By The Editorial Board
    Nov. 21, 2021 4:34 pm ET

    The Kyle Rittenhouse acquittal dominated the weekend news, but the more significant story for the long run was House passage Friday of the multi-trillion-dollar tax, climate and entitlement spending bill. Speaker Nancy Pelosi marched her majority off a cliff in 2010 with votes on ObamaCare, and now she has done it again.

    The Speaker muscled the bill through on a 220-213 vote. No Republicans voted aye, and Rep. Jared Golden of Maine was the sole Democratic dissenter. Other swing-district Democrats had made a show of demanding concessions and a bill that “paid for itself,” but in the end the bill didn’t pay for itself even by the rigged rules of the Congressional Budget Office. But they still rolled over, as they always do when Mrs. Pelosi gives the order.

    ***
    The 81-year-old Mrs. Pelosi is almost certainly retiring after this Congress, and this vote is a legacy project for her. But her younger Members will have much to explain in 2022 as they defend this gargantuan, destructive and unnecessary bill.

    There’s the immigration provision that would give 6.5 million or so illegal migrants who have been in the country since 2011 a 10-year right to work in the U.S. This will probably be stripped from the bill in the Senate, but House Members will be on record for legalizing millions of migrants even as the border has become a lawless mess. The political effect will be to empower GOP restrictionists.

    Then there’s the $8 billion methane “fee” that is in effect a tax on natural gas production and thus on consumer energy prices. The American Gas Association estimates this could raise the average family’s natural gas bill by 17%, so this is also a violation of President Biden’s pledge not to raise taxes on anyone earning less than $400,000 a year.

    Sen. Joe Manchin might strip this from the Senate bill. But Abigail Spanberger (Va.), Elissa Slotkin (Mich.), Mikie Sherrill (N.J.) and the rest are now on record as supporting higher energy prices when they are already spiking in suburban American.

    The immoderate moderates also voted for a tax cut for the rich in high-tax states by raising the state-and-local tax deduction to $80,000 from $10,000. The Penn Wharton Budget Model says that the top 10% of taxpayers will get 88% of the benefit from this provision. Most of those reside in coastal states run by Democrats.

    The same Democrats who campaign against inequality and for soaking the rich thus voted to give affluent taxpayers who earn up to $10 million a year a huge tax cut. The provision costs the Treasury $230 billion through 2026, after which Democrats pretend it will raise revenue. Sure it will. Mr. Golden cited this provision as the reason he voted no, and Senate Democrats may alter or nix it. But House Democrats are still on the record.

    Other lowlights that may end up in Republican campaign ads include the $2.5 billion handout to trial lawyers to deduct their expenses for contingency-fee lawsuits. Don’t forget the $1.7 billion subsidy for local journalists, most of whom are left of center. Republicans will call that, not without cause, a bribe for favorable coverage.

    All of this and more is part of the biggest expansion of the entitlement state since the 1960s, and maybe ever. House Democrats say the bill spends roughly $2 trillion over 10 years, but that’s because they use gimmicks such as phasing-out programs that they have no intention of phasing out. Independent analysts put it closer to $5 trillion over a decade if the programs are made permanent.

    Democrats say their specific programs are popular—who doesn’t love free child care? But voters understand that nothing is free from the government, and polls are starting to show that voters think they will end up paying for it. They are right. There are only so many rich people to soak, and Democrats are cutting taxes for most of them.

    Americans have also begun to link the flood of government spending to inflation, which is acting like another tax. With this bill, passed in the wake of their nationwide election drubbing this month, Democrats are underscoring that they are the inflation party.

    ***
    Mrs. Pelosi promised Democrats she wouldn’t make them vote on a bill before the Senate agreed to it, but as in 2010 she’s done that again. They’ll now have to defend provisions that couldn’t pass a Democratic Senate. No wonder Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy spoke on the House floor for eight hours. He knows the Democrats were voting to make him Speaker.

    Appeared in the November 22, 2021, print edition.
     
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  3. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Another one-sided partisan WSJ OP. Why can't they just list out everything to be more credible? I mean, they could list out all of the below and call it Socialism!

    - universal pre-K
    - lower child care costs
    - lower high education costs
    - 4 week parental or medical paid leave
    - extend child tax credit
    - expanding Medicare coverage to include hearing services
    - $35 monthly cap on insulin
    - lower drug price for Seniors
     
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  4. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    So 5 tax increases for childless people, two for people under 65, and one for people without Type 1 diabetes. No thank you.
     
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    You guys still haven’t figured out that Bill Maher has been trolling for clicks from you guys for months have you??

    He’s also a guy who DIDNT get “canceled” from the “woke mob” after he said “porch N*****” on his show and only had to get a talk from Ice Cube. If anyone should be thankful about the grace that American media consumers show its Bill.

    His show has been a big troll fest ever since Biden won?? Why???… because he knows how predicable you guys are and how easy you are to manipulate. In 2024 though do you really think he’s going to tell his audience to vote for Donald Trump?? You are a fool if you think Bill Maher is actually on your side fighting the “woke left.” He’s just trying to get clicks to stay relevant and to lure you guys in because he knows his normal viewers are taking a much needed break from politics like I have been.
     
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The irony is the easiest ploy to boost your profile and not be canceled is to go on a rant that you are being canceled.
     
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  7. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Well, you got to pay for it somehow. Fiscally responsible.

    The new taxes / limit on deductions are outlined here: https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2021/nov/tax-provisions-build-back-better-act.html

    In summary, closing many loopholes by big corp to reduce their taxes, a few changes that impact 400k+ AGI earners and a few more that impact 10m+ AGI earners.
     
  8. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Probably some level of conflict there, right?

    Here is the other viewpoint.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/energy...-dangerous-climate-pollution/?sh=6090e7953e78

    New modeling finds the Build Back Better Act’s fee on methane emissions from petroleum and natural gas systems is a critical component of the legislation’s overall climate impact, responsible for 65 percent of the Act’s reduction of industrial greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions through 2050. Investments in new equipment to capture leaks and revenue raised from a fee would also spur sustainable economic growth for decades, adding $250 billion to U.S. GDP and creating more than 70,000 jobs by 2050.
     
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  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    I saw that episode and I fully agree with Bill Maher. The Democrats have allowed their messaging to get sidetracked and hijacked on many issues. Terms like "woke" just lend themselves to being hijacked. I also fully agree that Democrats dismissal of rural voters comes at their own peril. I've even suggested that Ilhan Omar should hold a townhall in one of the rural districts of Minnesota. Also AOC should go onto his show and onto Fox news. Just ceded over a big part of the media isn't good if you're trying to reach more than just your base.

    Also you're right that just because Maher criticizes Democrats every now and then doesn't mean he's anywhere close to embracing the other side. Even on this show he mocked and criticized Republicans and warned of a "slow moving coup" by Trumpists.
     
  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Alternatively, you could not pick winners and losers and instead treat everyone the same. Why should people with kids pay less taxes than people without kids? Why should married couples get to combine their taxes? These are obvious, naked punishments to being single without children. I should not be taxed more than someone that has a housewife and five rugrats. I take much less from the government, why do I need to pay more into it?
     
  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    :rolleyes: yet, you were silent

    when Orange Hair and his cronies passed huge tax cuts (such as eliminating the alternative minimum tax) for the top 1%​


    instead of just fixating on your branch to the economic trees, you need to see the whole economic forest.

    as a single person w no kids, in so far as consumption, chances are that you contribute less to the economy.
    a family of 5 pays more in sales/gasoline tax than you.
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I probably contribute more to the economy. I bet I pay a lot more sales and gasoline tax than the average family of 5. I am in California which has among the highest sales and gasoline taxes in the country. I also spend more than the average person. The top 1% already pay the bulk of federal income tax. If I think everyone should be treated the same and the government shouldn't pick winners and losers, why would I speak out against tax cuts for the most overtaxed people?
     
  13. adoo

    adoo Member

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    the most over-taxed people are the middle class, not the top 1%

    as a % of their gross income, the top 1% pays much lower % than the avg middle class.

    this is due to the tax loopholes (tax deductions/tax credits) available to them, not available to the avg middle class.
    you keep on preaching that people should be treated the same, YET you're silent on this inequity when the Gov picks the winners
     
    #713 adoo, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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  14. adoo

    adoo Member

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    the avg family of 5 in Calif consumes more than you, a single person tax payer w no kids


    that's because they make more than the bulk of the income.

    this underscores the disparity in gross income​

    but as a % of their gross income, the top 1% pays a much lower rate than the middle class. a most vivid eg of the Gov picking winners
     
    #714 adoo, Nov 22, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  15. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I suppose it depends on how you define middle class. There are a number of definitions used, generally as some distance to either side of the median income (eg. median income plus or minus 50%). Under many of these definitions, many members of the middle class will have a net zero federal income tax rate or less.
    Here Is the Tax Burden on the Richest 1% in Every State (msn.com) In every state, the top 1% is paying more than 30% of their total income in taxes. In some states more than 40%. In California over 47%. No one around the median income is paying more than 47% of their income in taxes.
    I don't think they are picking the winners, they are slightly bringing the tax burden somewhat closer to the other people. Also, Trump drastically reduces SALT deductions, which hurts high income filers in places like California far more than the marginal rate reduction helps. I think you are focusing on edge cases like Bezos or something, people who make the bulk of their money in capital gains. I would make things fair by having no deductions, no exemptions, no differentiation by source of income. Ideally, there would be no taxes at all, and we would have a drastically reduced government that is paid for by use fees and penalties, but failing that, a flat tax that is the same for everyone.
     
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  16. adoo

    adoo Member

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    middle class is middle class,

    don't be stupid !

    you have poor reading comprehension.

    in the MSN article, the % refers to the "% of the total tax revenue collected by the IRS", NOT the effective income tax rate

    while their (top 1%) gross income represents > 50% of the total pie, their share of income tax paid is ~ 30% of the total pie.

    just the facts, they (top 1%) pay way less than their fair share of taxes.​

    it is too bad that you don't understand.

    Trump's tax cut eliminated alternate minimum tax; he picked those who are subject to AMT as the winners
    pre-Trump, the top 1% .(with all their tax loopholes) were subject to AMT​

    clearly you're confused, all mixed up.
    the cap on SALT hurts the middle class a lot more than the top one %. for the most part, SALT are the only tax deduction available to the middle class.
     
    #716 adoo, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/kyle-r...ilty-11637597046?mod=hp_trending_now_opn_pos2

    Kyle Rittenhouse and the Left’s Terrifying Assault on Due Process
    They want revolutionary justice. The legal system’s verdict will be supplanted by the people’s judgment.
    By Gerard Baker
    Nov. 22, 2021 1:01 pm ET

    The unhinged reaction from the left to Kyle Rittenhouse’s acquittal last week is easily dismissed as a glimpse into the rancid minds and rabid hearts of the ideological brigands of modern progressivism.

    But it may offer clarity about the real threat posed by the Democratic Party and its fellow travelers to the values and institutions that have made America the most successful democratic republic in history.

    With varying degrees of apoplexy, from President Biden on down, the party’s leaders and its allies emphasized their dismay with or rage at the decision by 12 of Mr. Rittenhouse’s peers, after due deliberation, unanimously to find him not guilty of first-degree murder and lesser charges in the killings of two men and wounding of a third during the August 2020 riots in Kenosha, Wis.

    Mr. Biden, proving himself once again the consummate moral weakling, first declared his respect for the jury’s verdict, then pronounced himself—no doubt after consultation with his handlers—“angry and concerned.”

    While the follow-up statement paid lip service to the idea that a jury’s decision should be respected, the more striking message was that remarkable emotional response to its unanimous decision.

    The president’s politically motivated disregard for the rights of accused defendants is well documented by now. He had already included the young man among a video montage of “white supremacists” during his memorably “healing” campaign for the presidency. He also told the nation he was “praying for the right verdict” as the jury deliberated in April before convicting Derek Chauvin for the murder of George Floyd. Running commentary on the guilt of criminal defendants is despicable when offered by barroom braggarts, but when it comes from the most powerful man on the planet it amounts to reckless endangerment of the rights of his fellow citizens.

    But that’s the point.

    In the minds of the ranting radicals of the Squad or MSNBC, dimly repeated by the president, these so-called rights—presumption of innocence, due process, trial by jury, proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, etc., are not the bedrock legal protections against overweening authority the Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence has deemed them to be. In the minds of the regnant left when they find the defendant unsympathetic, they are inconveniences, fetishized excrescences of judicial process that obstruct and subvert the larger and more important objective of social justice. In this increasingly popular account on the left, they are the armor with which the capitalist white supremacists protect their hegemony. As such they can be dismissed.

    And so people like House Judiciary Chairman Jerrold Nadler, the Democratic congressman, his own intellectual vacuity helpfully filled in by Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, can demand that Mr. Rittenhouse face further prosecution under spurious civil-rights precepts designed to undo the principle of double jeopardy.

    So too do the president and his party demonstrate disdain for other niceties of the law: extending the Covid eviction moratorium Mr. Biden knew was unconstitutional, imposing a blanket vaccine mandate on employers in the face of widespread advice that it wouldn’t pass legal muster.

    It’s hard to resist the conclusion that the intention behind the denunciation by some of the left of the Rittenhouse verdict reflected an even darker instinct. Though the president himself called for restraint, some of the loud condemnations sounded like incitement of more of the kind of behavior that characterized the Kenosha riots in the first place. Rep. Cori Bush of Missouri tweeted: “The judge. The jury. The defendant. It’s white supremacy in action”—just as California’s Maxine Waters had promised unrest if the Chauvin verdict went the wrong way.

    This is what the pernicious doctrines of the modern progressive identity left look like in practice. The “critical theory” they subscribe to says real justice cannot be delivered by a court, presided over by a judge whose outcome is determined by a dispassionate jury, since the entire structure is itself the product of racism, oppression and discrimination.

    What they want is revolutionary justice. The legal system’s verdict will be supplanted by the people’s judgment so that someone like Mr. Rittenhouse will pay for his crime of defending himself and the property of others against the people’s paramilitary.

    These same people professed outrage when a Republican-supporting mob attempted to subvert a constitutional process. Genuine democrats condemn both sorts of lawlessness.

    Juries sometimes reach the wrong verdict. But no one who watched critical phases of the Kenosha trial can honestly assert that the evidence proved the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Far from representing some malign flaw in the legal process, it showed the system working at its best.

    If the left’s reaction to this case doesn’t scare you, I am afraid you don’t understand what it represents, or how rapidly and how far the poison of this subversive and illiberal dogma has already spread through a political movement and ideology we once called liberal.

    Appeared in the November 23, 2021, print edition.
     
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  18. adoo

    adoo Member

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    you have poor reading comprehension.

    in the MSN article, the % refers to the "% of the total tax revenue collected by the IRS", NOT the effective income tax rate


    which means that

    the 99%ers pay ~ 70% of the total tax revenues collected by the IRS, in some state 60%, in Calif ~ 53%​
     
  19. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    You need to relax dude. Go back to day trading
     
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  20. adoo

    adoo Member

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    you need to improve on your reading comprehension; go back and read the MSN article again.





     
    #720 adoo, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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