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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. FranchiseBlade

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    Dyson, was saying that he doesn't believe the positions coming out of the mouths of Winsome Sears's aren't helpful to the positions and issues facing the broadest selection of African American communities.

    I don't believe that's racist.
     
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  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    okay
     
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  3. Gioan Baotixita

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    As a minority myself, I identify with Winsome Sears so much and especially her love for America. Every freaking elections, my phone is being bombarded with texts from the Dems just because of my surname. Those losers will never get it when everything in their universe is about identity politics.

    Hey Dems, the racecard is dead. People are wise to your divive and conquer game now. If you guys want any hope of future victories, take the off season to work on some new moves. Your old ones sucked.
     
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  4. Gioan Baotixita

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    I expect nothing less coming out of his mouth. Dyson has always been a knucklehead and a racist himself.
    Dyson and Reid are the greatest gifts to conservatives. We don’t have to convince minorities to leave that wretched, racist party.
     
    #644 Gioan Baotixita, Nov 5, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
  5. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Progressives made a number of concessions on the infrastructure bill in order to get it passed in the Senate. In return, they asked for the bill to be passed with the general spending (or BBB) bill to ensure that they could include some key legislation in the latter.

    Since then, Manchin and Sinema have worked tirelessly to break these terms, and have done so in a way that absolutely shreds Democratic negotiating power. Make no mistake, their goal is to torpedo BOTH bills and they will do anything they can to succeed.

    Stop blaming progressives for standing up for good legislation and start focusing on the weakness of the centrists. Centrists don't stand for anything except not upsetting Republicans.
     
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  6. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Progressives have done nothing of the sort.

    They've stood up for things that do support all classes and regions of people - paid time off, childcare, fair taxation are just a few examples. But for some reason, the centrists - who support nothing - prefer to whine about the cost (rather than support the progressives' mechanisms that would lower the net costs) and worse, blame progressives when their own empty views come up short in elections. And as our friend Beau pointed out - candidates who pushed progressive ideas WON on Tuesday.



    Let's be clear here - the only "hand" progressives are playing is insisting that the rest of the party stick with the agreement made that both the infrastructure and BBB bill would be passed together (an agreement in which progressives made key concessions). The centrists are reneging on this agreement, and yet you want to blame the progressives.

    All so typical - centrists just are too ****ing scared to admit their own lack of ideas and principles
     
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  7. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Neither Sinema or especially Manchin have any integrity. Both should be primaried and if the Democrats lose to the Republicans in those states I won't shed a tear. Tow the party line or get the **** out the way.

    There's plenty of fault to go around...
     
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  8. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    LMAO

    "integrity"
     
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  9. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    First off - the net cost of the BBB isn't even close to 3.5 trillion. Their are multiple analyses available that show how once the various funding mechanisms kick in (higher taxes on 1%, cost savings to consumers, etc), it's actually below 2 trillion.

    Secondly, even the gross cost is spread over 10 ****ing years. 10 ****ING YEARS!!!! That means 350 billion gross which isn't even half what we spend at the Pentagon each year (and that's the above-board spending - there's plenty of spending that is hidden in other places). The items in t

    The government debt does not work like household debt, but even if it did, your argument is the equivalent of someone arguing not to save for retirement, repair the car or pay for school supplies because they haven't made much of a dent on the mortgage. No financial counselor would ever make that recommendation, and likewise, neither does any economist. That doesn't mean you spend like a drunken sailor - rather, you make smart investments that over the long run yield tangible and intangible returns. Both the infrastructure and BBB bill are full of items that invest in ALL citizens and also fix a number of problems that have been festering for decades.

    The only "bill" that comes due is each year's debt ceiling bill, and so long as we pay the minimum amount, we are fine. There is no danger of defaulting unless you and your fellow conservatives continue to play your "we won't pay our bills" game.

    Don't blame progressives for your own ignorance and bad faith.
     
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  10. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The problem is being right, and doing the right thing doesn't always win you elections, and in America we rely on winning elections in order to have the power to do good things.

    Our system is setup to allow for minority power with states where few people live. IE LAND = POWER. Our electoral system is setup that way, and shows that we truly don't have a pure Democracy by design.

    So politically, yes progressives are to blame somewhat for election losses. Because saying the right thing... "ex: racism is systemic, and all of our history should be taught accurately" is POLITICALLY a disadvantage given the white population in this countries voting power coupled with the mega right wing messaging machine that the Progressives do not have.

    So yeah... Progressives are right... and they also can give soundbites that hurt the parties position to win elections in white, uneducated, swing states. I'm not really sure what we do to solve that problem since we need to first win elections to make changes.... even small ones like a popular infrastructure bill.
     
  11. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    They're both welcome to change parties if the Democratic one doesn't work for them or their constituents. Just do it after the midterms so these judges can keep getting confirmed.
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I think he was pretty explicit
    He feels she is a puppet . . . like Clarence Thomas

    I dunno anything about her
    and her website: https://winsomesears.com/
    appears pretty lean on policy or ideals.

    https://winsomesears.com/issues/ <--- has more stuff
    • Protect Virginia’s Right-to-Work Law and Oppose Forced Unionization
    • Promoting Choice by Creating More Opportunities, Especially in Failing School Districts
    • Fire the Parole Board and Preserve Truth in Sentencing
    • Raise Pay for Virginia State Police Troopers, Sheriff’s Deputies, Corrections Officers, and Police Officers
    • Reduce Law Enforcement Interactions by Increasing the Use of Handheld Photo Speed Enforcement
    Beyond these above . . .
    I don't see much that is super problematic but these are just words
    and not much on how she will implement things
    so the general impact is unknown . . .. .

    Those bullet points above . . . . the are red flags to me .. . make me cautious



    Rocket River
     
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  13. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    I agree with some of this - obviously, the example of "Defund the Police" is a perfect example of terrible messaging by progressive activists (vs actual progressive politicians) that had downstream effects.

    But at the same time, that absolves centrist politicians for not getting their own messaging in order. And I don't think that's fair or accurate (in terms of likely consequences).

    First off, one of the main (and just, in my opinion) criticisms of centrist Democrats is that they don't seem to stand for anything other than a few broad platitudes. Basically, they're glorified poll-watchers who promise not to shake things up at all. Even the most milquetoast of Republicans at least promises something specific like low taxes - but centrists seem to identify with truly doing nothing.

    Secondly, if you look at polls and elections where progressive candidates and ideas are actually on the ballot, they tend to do pretty well in the general elections. Things like raising the minimum wage consistently win local and state referendums, and subsidized child care, and the promise to tax corporations and the 1% more fairly is hugely popular. Yet centrists run away from all of these things consistently and then wonder why their margins of electability are so thin. Now of course voters differ from district to district, but for statewide offices, there's no reason to shy away from supporting these issues.

    Thirdly, centrists seem to believe that by ignoring or merely giving the most tepid disapproval of progressive hot button issues is good enough. These kinds of issues - CRT, BLM and pandemic lockdowns, for example - wouldn't matter as much if centrists had a real political identity, but as I've described above, they don't. So people are inevitably (regardless of what progressives are saying) going to judge them by how they react to the latest controversies. Thus it's critical for them to be prepared to issue nuanced but also succinct responses. Using defund the police as an example, they should hammer home the fact that they (1) want to ensure all necessary funding for law enforcement and (2) that law enforcement should have the tools necessary to succeed at their jobs. They can then use that 2nd point to emphasize that too often police are being used to handle situations for which they are not trained, and that it is worth investigating alternatives so that the police can succeed at those responsibilities that are clearly theirs.

    Similarly, for something like CRT, all a politician has to say is CRT is a law school/graduate level topic and is not being taught at any K-12 school nor is it part of any school curriculum. Emphasize that while no student is going to be blamed for the sins of the past, you also support exposing students to all perspectives, which the student can then assess themselves and with their parents.

    If I can muster answers like that in 2 sentences, centrist politicians should be able to as well. But most of them can't - their messaging is like a lowlights reel of Hugh Grant sputtering awkwardly.

    Finally, nobody is going to take any centrist politician seriously if he/she looks around for someone other than him/herself to blame for an election loss. Why McAuliffe chose a campaign manager with a history of losses is far more consequential to his own loss than anything a progressive elsewhere said.
     
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  14. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    Its racist by saying it's a black mouth moving. Just because that person doesnt agree with her policy he shouldn't resort to racial insults. Indefensible, in my opinion.
     
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  15. FranchiseBlade

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    I think calling it racist without looking further into what he's talking about is a shallow and very surface examination of what is being discussed.
     
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  16. ArtV

    ArtV Member

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    3.5 is what the progressives want. But they can't get approval from the mainstream democrats on anything close to that.

    You can't keep spending more than you take in. They've been pillaging the SSN coffers which are becoming bare. That will have to get addressed real soon. We currently spend over 330+ billion a year on interest. That figure is projected to at least double in the next 10 years (some say triple but I'm more optimistic).

    Do you pay the min on your CC and think all is fine? if you do then I don't think you're one to lecture about your financial knowledge.

    We need roads and bridges - everyone uses/needs them. We need to fund back SSN - heck it's my money and I've paid max for decades - you better not tell me you spent all my money when it's my time to withdraw. We need to reel in big pharm. We need to reform education. We need to do all we can to keep interest rates low and inflation down because that hurts the lower income more than anyone. Once you've addressed the needs then I'd move on to expand health care, dental care. Still money left over, then add more.

    I agree that we need to raise the taxes on the rich and corporations. I'd personally put a flat tax on WS gains that trading houses would gather and submit - losses are not deductible. I also agree that the Pentagon needs a haircut. Then another haircut. Proof in point that the one thing I've learned is the government doesn't know how to spend money wisely. Do you know why? It's not their money. They didn't earn it.
     
  17. Astrodome

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    I agree somewhat. I think there are many reasons why it's racist and that was the most simple way to express it. Digging deeper, it shows how many topics almost always boil down to race to many pundits. No reason to resort to Jim crow-like slander to this woman after her victory.
     
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  18. jiggyfly

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    Negotiate with who?
     
  19. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

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    I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone is racist
     
  20. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    Racist and Supremacy is the future even if it’s really not
     

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