What do people think of these crazy numbers teams and players are putting up the last few years? 50 point games are becoming so routine now. I think it's exciting to see, but also kind of waters down the accomplishment and it is more difficult to compare what these players are doing against what players of past generations did. How much of this should be attributed to the evolution of skill level in individual players, evolution of team strategy, or changes in NBA rules? What does the future look like? Will scores just keep going up and up, or are we hitting a limit? Should the league look to rebalance things with rule changes? What might those look like?
Personally I would love to see some rule changes. There are a lot of cheap moves that gives offensive players the advantage more often than not and it's really annoying. Jumping forward on defenders that fall for pump fakes, but attempt to correct themselves by avoiding jumping forward, should not be a foul. Rake through moves, like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant type moves, should not be a foul. The move that Harden puts on defenders where he intentionally hooks the defender on his way to the basket, should not be a foul. I also wish flopping would actually be penalized heavily. The NBA completely went away from the first attempt they made to penalize flops. It should be way more of a penalty that should work on a strike system, similar to technical fouls. It's ridiculous that flopping is still allowed in the game. The pace of the game has sped up and I really don't mind. Even removing hand checking from the game has also done wonders for the game and made defensive planning much more difficult. I don't think we need major rule changes to tone back the amount of scoring that is going on in this era, but some rule changes are warranted to stop giving offensive players every freaking advantage.
I agree with all of this. I feel like the fact that Harden has been the runaway scoring leader the last few seasons has distracted people from the fact that he's not remotely the only one who's cheating the system, he's just the best at it (while also probably being the most talented scorer overall). And maybe the fact that he's the lightning rod and scapegoat for all this has slowed the NBA's willingness to address it on a larger scale. Don't get me wrong, I do fully believe that rules overall should favor the offensive player. Scoring is the core of the game, and obviously the most entertaining thing to watch. The OG way was to be able to defend with only incidental contact. Plus, it seems easier for an unprotected offensive player to get injured than an unprotected defensive player. When in doubt, the benefit of the call should go to the offense (I'm generally with Matt Bullard in that regard), but it's gone a bit too far lately... Meanwhile, they still suck at making charging/blocking fouls.
Traveling the NBA has always been lax when it comes to calling it, but now its becoming comical how much players get away with walking in any given game.
They aren't walking the NBA changed the rules you now have the "gather step" or "zero step" which allows you to take a step before you dribble the ball.
I think the "stats explosion" argument is overblown. Here are the historical stats of the NBA. If it is true that it is much easier to score than ever than the PT average should increase as the years go by right? https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html Wrong. The league average this year is 111.8 pts which is high however if you go to the 1980s below it is right around that range. In fact it seems like rather than the points increasing exponentially seems like the 90s-early 2010 pt average were just abnormally small. I think MJ is responsible for the dip in scoring you can see the scoring dwindle around 1995 which was the Bulls champ years till 2012 which was the year Lebron lost to the Spurs. So my theory is that everybody tried to emulate MJ's game and the Bulls style which was a lot of ISO, a lot of defensive oriented teams, half court and lots of mid range jumpers. That led to players being extremely inefficient and taking bad shots so that lowered the scoring output cuz players missed more shots. Players back then were def capable of going for 40-50 (as shown by players like MJ and Kobe numerous times) but cuz they were taking less 3 pts and a lot more mid range shots it was harder to do so. Now they are taking smarter shots so they reach 30+ a night.
the raptors bench scored 100 points today, i couldnt believe it when i read that on twitter. 150 points in regulation for a playoff game is crazy, maybe it has to due with the 14 second shot clock after an offensive rebound
No it has to do with Toronto shooting lights out. They shot 55.5% from the field and 47% from 3. Rox took like 50 threes last game. If they made 47% that would be 70 pts just on threes alone never mind 2s and fts.
that's true. and maybe part of the issue. most of us (certainly me) grew up on the 90's and 2000's. some saw the 80's. again, i don't want to go back to the lockout year where i think 3 different defenses held people under 85 ppg, but some of these numbers just make historical comparisons pointless. every time someone does anything it's "first since wilt", "first since oscar", "first since elgin" type of comparisons. we just skip right over the 80's guys and late-90's/early-2000's guys might as well not even apply. whether it's doncic today or harden and westbrook posting 50 point triple doubles like nothing or giannis leaving every game in the middle of the 3rd with 31/16/8. i mentioned this in the mavs/clippers thread, but jordan's flu game finished 90-88 (which isn't even a crazy low score for that era). the mavs and clippers basically scored 50% more than both of those teams. kawhi seemingly had a good game today, but if you translated his numbers down to a 90-88 game, he put up 21/6/3. remember when francis getting 20/6/6 was impressive? that's a nice first half now. to me, the 90's knicks and then the heat that followed them are the most likely reason. people know the pistons for their flagrant fouls, but no team was really as possession-to-posession physical as the knicks were. then the league just gradually kept allowing more contact, which gradually made defensive players more valuable as stoppers and shooters less valuable as scorers. and it just kept going until you had indiana and detroit just wrestling each other in the post and bumping people on every drive, with ben wallace and ron artest being the most important people on their teams without being able to shoot. they finally loosened some of that up but then put in the zone, which was a whole new level for defenses. but finally enough shooters came around to break the zone, the heat popularized small-ball by winning (in a way even phoenix didn't), morey told everyone to shoot 3's and they listened, golden state made big men obsolete, and now you've got the opposite problem of the 90's in that everyone is a shooter and defense is a nice benefit if you can find it.
The gather step is great, it still takes incredible skill to do what James Harden does - it's not 'cheap' or lazy. Seeing his footwork is like watching ballet out there, it's pure poetry. I dont know why anyone would want to take that away. The problem is the 3-point line shouldn't be worth a whole 50% more than 2-point, it's too large a gap. But you cant make it a 2.5 line lol. And whatever you do there is always going to be a certain length of long 2's where it's just not worth shooting those shots as you might as well go to the 3 point line. I would perhaps make the paint a little smaller, which would help post guys. Although it would help interior defenders deter drivers too, which could lead to more iso and perimeter shooting. Some of the protect the shooter stuff is a little weak too imo. Definitely keep the landing spot foul, but on some of these shots they hit the hand after the ball is released, who cares about that type of contact after the shot has gone?
Regarding reducing the value of the 3, what about making it so that you only get 3 points for every alternating shot made beyond the arc? That would effectively turn its value to 2.5.
This is a hot take but I actually think the early 60s was the biggest stat inflation era, especially in rebounds. I honestly think Westbrook's triple double seasons were more legitimate than Oscar's. The pace was at an all time high then with every possession looking like 7 seconds or less. It was literally rebound-dribble up-one pass-shoot every possession. If the players then could shoot half decently the scores would be really high too but I think the average FG was like 42% or something. That's why there were so many crazy rebound numbers from that era. Edit: OK I just looked it up the average ppg this year was 111.8 and in 61-62 it was 118.1! That's without 3 pointers and with "real defense". There were 73 rebounds per team per game then compared to 45 now. That era was crazy.
The refs are calling too many fouls. It's impossible to guard players now. It's basically turned how people play on the playground. Jack up an insane amount of threes.
A few years ago there were discussions about pushing the three point line out another few feet. My guess is the league does nothing though.
Big difference in Points Per Possession, though. Very low in 60s, and probably near or at an all-time high now.
It bothers me so much that some people have this mindset, or otherwise use this particular phrase when describing Harden. These players aren't cheating the system. They're still doing everything within the bounds of the rulebook. Cheating implies that you're doing something underhanded, not in the rulebook or both. GSW's moving screens? That's obviously cheating which isn't called. Harden's bait of sticking out both arms on a drive so that he gets hacked? Not cheating.
