Nothing personal, Ive missed a few games over the years myself...I like the way you write,,,I guess my questions were, where are the rumors coming from and how can you see Rocket games when you live out of town ?
The fact that there is even a debate as to whether Steve is a point gaurd or shooting gaurd is one of the problems with basketball here in the U.S. (imho). Why do we feel the need to pigeonhole players into archaic definitions of positions or roles. Basketball has and still is evolving beyond those definitions. With the increasing skills and athleticism of ball players, you can no longer hold them to one particular role. Look at the European style of coaching and playing. They let the players individual skills and attributes define their position or how they play: Gasol, Nowitzki, Tski (in Denver) all seven footers, who would typically (based on oldschool definitions) play the 4 or 5 spot are more effective at the small forward or even shooting gaurd positions. Duncan, Garnett, Sabonis, Vlade, and even Yao (once he gets acclimated) can not be held to typical power forward or center roles of moving from the box at one end of the floor to the other, or doing most of their damage in the paint due to their passing skills and the fact that they have excellent range in their jump\set shot. You would be limiting those players if you pigeonholed them into typicall roles. I say all of this to emphasize the point that Steve (our franchise player) is one of these next evolutionary level type of players. You can not hold him to the old school (Stocktonish) type off mold. He has the ability to score at will, rebound with like a forward, and believe or not pass like a point guard, so why limit him. I feel that it's the coaches job to utilize all of those skills, getting the most out of the player and his abilities. Rudy is attempting to do this (when he does run movement) by getting Francis and Mobes mid-range shots (or haven't you noticed that the Rox take fewer threes now). When the defense attempts to take away the 1 and 2 scoring options then it is the other players job to knock down the looks that they do get. The role players haven't been doing that yet (with the exception of Hawk). In essence, stop trying to limit or knock Steve by saying he is not a good point gaurd and should be a shooting gaurd. He is a GREAT PLAYER (by far the best on this team) and great players will and should dominate the ball. Period.
David, some good points, but these are my concerns... 1) Agreed, re: the player/position definition, usually, but point guard as another type of animal. If you have an offense where the pg fullfills the traditional role of bringing the ball up and setting the offense, as Francis does, then that player defines the team's offense. On the old Bulls, for example, their pg's didn't do that, they were just other perimeter shooters. But if you have a guy filling that role who also chooses to shoot most of the time, you will automatically develop a lethargic offense. If you've played ball, I'm sure you can figure out the feelings that go along with being another player who works hard, sets up, and watches the guy who brings the ball up just play 1 on 1, whereupon you go for the rebound, or not, then head back down court to play defense, whereupon you do the same thing. Imagine if you're a wide receiver who runs it out down after down to beat your man, gives him double moves, beats the jam, whatever, and your qb just runs the ball most of the time...How long are you going to keep busting your butt. There is a reason " Reward your big men with the ball. " is a basketball cliche... 2) I agree that if Stevie improves at getting his teammates involved, it's a moot point... 3) Isiah isn't the best example...Yeah, he could score 50 if he needed to...But he almost never tried, and that started from day one. As a point guard, you have to be the one to set the tone of trust, not the other way around...that's why you're the floor general, the guy with the ball in your hands. Isiah came out of college averaging more assists than Steve has ever come close to. When Marbury was putting up 30 a night for N.J., and earning the selfish rap, his defenders were saying just that: He doesn't trust his teammates. Everyone else said that that was his job...To put them in a position to score. If they're not scoring, you are part of the problem, and the worst solution is to start jacking it up. That destroys the entire team's confidence in you as a leader. And I will remind you that Marbury was averaging about twice as many assists as Steve has so far... 4) Agreed on the 5 assists hurting team, but how do you reconcile that with your earlier point about player defining team? What if 5 assists/30 points is his definition? Would you then agree that there might be a problem? 5) My concern is that, if anything, I see him playing shoot-first more this year than ever before. Yeah, it's early...no, I'm not really worried yet...but if this continues, I will be, and that's what I'm talking about.
My misunderstanding...Oh, the rumours are everywhere...Many internet basketball sites, many publications...I live in Toronto, and as the Raptors just played the Rockets, the local papers do many articles before the games, and pick up many others from other publications. Well, I saw game 3 because I'm in Toronto, and my friend has a dish, so I get to see the (too) odd other game.
Agree with MacBeth definitely. Steve is a great star. But if he continues to play in the way like the 3 regular games, which make the team play like his personal performance, either he will be traded and a real point guard come to Rockets, or Rudy will be fired because he loses the control of the team play. But I still have patience to wait for a while, lets see whether this situation will change, and tonight will be a good test and prediction.
MacBeth:- I agree with your point of view 100%! The problem might have been Steves conversations with John Lucas during the offseason, I thing he might have put the MVP idea into Steves head. Moochie is nowhere good enough to be the starting Point Guard,so far he's not good enough for back up! So it looks like to me that we need a first class'pure' Point Guard.I do see that Steve has made an effort to improve his leadership and playmaking, but its only a minimal showing!He has refused to pass even when players are calling for the ball. It doesn't look good! Remember Steve talking before his first season on how he was going to lead the NBA in Assists? AS others have said we should wait till 20games are up before we formulate FIRM opinions!
Exaclty what I was going to say O-Dawg. s logn as the team wins, that's fine. When Yao is completely comfy here, and we begin running the high post offense with/through him, Steve will look a lot more ike you guys want. But he'll still be the PG. He'll be the leader. Think about this: Steve is averaging 29 points, and 4 assists. So he accounts for around 37 points. Jason Kidd averages 15 points and 10 assists. That's 35 points. Basically, Steve minus one turnover. What's the point of passing the ball? To get your teammates to score right? But if you're the best scorer on the team, then naturally, you should shoot more, and you would average less assists than an offensively-terrible player like Jason Kidd, right? As long as he cuts down on the TO's, he's our PG. This early season scoring spree is perfect. In the next few games, teams are going to say "this guy is averaging 30 points a game, maybe we should play harder D on him, send one mroe man on him?". That's right around the time Rice and Mo will be back, and it will be perfect for our team.
Mobley and Mooch have brought the ball up court as much as Francis in the past 3 games. Notice in the next few games that it is not so much position that defines who is bringing the ball up the court for the Rox as it is the personel on the floor and\or the offensive set the Rox are running on that possession (or haven't you noticed times when Steve will have the ball and be preparing to bring it down the court, but promptly give the ball to Cat because he is to be the intiator of the offense on that play). If you've played organized ball before, then you know that any coach worth his salt, will bench your butt if he even thinks that you aren't busting your butt because you feel you aren't getting the ball enough. Plays are designed for a reason. If the play is designed to get a certain player a shot at a certain location then if you aren't the player the play was designed for you better hustle for rebounds and get back on D or you may find another player out there in your place. This isn't the playground or the local YMCA, these are paid proffesionals who know their roles. I see your analogy and counter with a couple of my own... do Quarterbacks not develop a favorite receiver, the guy who he knows will make the catch time after time, the guy who he looks for when he is in trouble, the guy the coaches design plays for to get him free for the pass (see Cuttino Mobley). Also it depends on the offense, some offenses pass heavily to the tight end, some don't, some offense run more, some pass more, again as I've stated before, you coach to your strengths. If I'm a tight end on a run heavy offensive style do i stop blocking because I'm not getting many passes? Players know their roles, even if some of us don't.
Sane you are smarter than that. The reason that statement is so poor is simple. If your PG is putting up 20 shots a night, and he is handling the ball (as PGs do) that means NO ONE ELSE is touching the ball on many of your offensive sets. I promise if you watch 10 Nets games and then watched 10 Rockets games you would know that adding points and assists for a total is not indicative of what is going on here. You have to have flow, the flow comes through the PG, if he is shooting 20 times per game, and there is no flow. Oh by the way, if Steve is off, the team is screwed. If Kidd is off, there are 4 other players on the floor that will be used to being involved in the offense ready to help out (also see the Mavs).
While i agree with your point with respect to most positions, as I mentioned elsewhere I feel that that is not true for a point guard who's the focus of an offense. An offense which starts with your point guard, as ourse does, will inevitably become stagnant if it tends to stop with that same player. Whether or not Steve is redefining the traditional point guard role is irrelevant if in doing so he is defining our offense as being 1 guy playing, 4 guys watching.
Steve being traded is a completely ridiculous idea and I have $85 million reasons why, but I'll just give you one: If you trade Steve who will be you're Franchise player and pick up his share of the scoring load... Yao Ming - don't think so, we're about a year away from him being able to hold his own, let alone dominate or score at will like Steve (your Franchise player) Eddie Griffin - love the kids 'D' and he will break out of his offensive slump, but he can't create his own shot like Steve (your Franchise player) Mo-T - nope Rice - nope Nachbar - nope (hell Rudy won't even give the kid minutes) Kenny - nope (they usually extend contracts of Franchise players) I could continue the list, but why bother, getting rid of Steve or Cat at this point is unacceptable. Especially getting rid of Steve for a pure point gaurd (whoever the hell that's supposed to be) you need Steves scoring too much. John Lucas does not have to put the idea into Steves head, Steve already is the Most Valuable Player on this team no matter how much you'd like for Yao to be, at this point he is just not ready... again I feel that you are insinuating that Steve is more concerned with his numbers and stats, than he is with winning. This goes against everything that Steve has said and his actions. If he was only concerned with his numbers would he be taking time to help Yao and making him feel more comfortable, don't think so. Steve knows that Yao will eventually make this team better, and he also realizes that there is enough room and ball for them both, even if YOU don't.
Sane...I don't think I can see the merit of this argument...For example, can we agree that, rightly or wrongly, Stephon Marbury is percieved as being a selfish point guard? If so, how do you account for the fact that in his last 2 years in Jersey, when he most earned that rep, according to your formula he accounted for over 37 points a game....very close to but a little more than what Steve is doing now. Playing point guard ( in a traditional set, as we have) comes with certain responsibilities, by the nature of the position. It isn't about individual performance alone, it's about what kind of sets you get your team into, whether or not you get everyone touches, how you control the flow, essentially directing the offense. If it were just about how many points you account for, Stephon Marbury would have pretty much been the best point guard in the league during his time in Jersey...the same time when he was being maligned for being a selfish player.
If our forwards would shoot around 45-50%, steve's assists would be near 7-8 per game, factor in yao, and steve could average double digit assists, just give the team a little time to gel and get used to each other...some people here have little or no patience. rice, moT has been out , with those two back in, the team should have some more options.
1) I completely disagree with regards to the frequency of bringing the ball up...Some times Cuttino does, yes, so does every other sg...but the vast majority of the time it's Steve who crosses halfcourt with the ball, Steve who calls the sets, Steve who directs the picks, Steve who starts the offense. 2) I've not played organized ball , I guess, just started at pg in hs for a couple of years, and didn't gey any scholarship offers like I did in football, but I'd still have to say that what you are talking about is unrealisitc. Yes, it's everyone's job to bust their butt every play night in and night out, irrespective of touches...just like you are supposed to play as hard down 30 at halftime as you are in a close game...or pro athletes are supposed to stay out of drugs...or any other number of polianic principles which don't really apply. In organized ball Stephon Marbury is traded because his teammates have given up trying every night because they don't give full effort as bit players in the Stephon Marbury Show...in organized ball Alan Iverson is moved to shooting guard because his shoot-first mentality as a point guard was causing the other players to become lethargic...in organized ball a coach's job is to get everyone reading off the same page, not borrowing copies of one player's script...Yeah, payed proffessionals should know their roles...the point is, what's a point guard's role? If it's to lead the offense, and get others involved, does Steve know his? 3) Yes, qb's develop favorite receivers...but not exclusive ones. On a given play a qb has 2 or 3 checkoffs..in other words, if option 1 is covered, he has option 2, 3, etc...which justifies the effort of the secondary receivers, in case option 1 doesn't work, they have to try and get open. If the qb doesn't check off, but always goes to the same option, he's quickly replaced. And the analogy is incomplete..the reason I had the qb running the ball in mine is beacsue that's closer in nature to what a pg does when looking shoot first...He involves no other players, period. There is no incentive to get open as option no. 2 when option no. 1 is calling his own number. Yes, offenses vary..usually about 50-50, but they do alter...but almost no offenses go more than 55% running, because it has been shown that 1 man shows can be stopped by good teams if they know it's coming...which is why Barry Sanders never won anything....Same goes in basketball. Name me a shoot first pg who's ever won a ring.
One thing that really hurts Steve in his Assist and Turnover stats is his failure to run a successful fastbreak. The fact is, Steve is a poor passer/decision maker on the fastbreak and in sets. The bad passing, turnovers, and selfish play is a product of a combination of things IMO. (1)Francis has poor decision making often (2)Our offense has clearly encouraged the shoot first play (3)limited trust in teammates because of last years lack of dependable teammates But lets make something clear, everyone- everyone has something to work on. Kidd is an amazing passer/point guard but not until the last two years did he have an average jumper. Will Francis get better as a passer, I believe so. With a new offense and more reliable teammates; I believe we have every reason to believe he will become a better passer. Will he be a "Kidd" type PG, IMHO, I highly doubt it. Does that mean he won't be a highly successful PG, IMHO, he will be very successful. For Kidd fans, it must have been frustrating watching Kidd continuously brick 15-18' jumpshots. It wasn't long ago opponents invited him to take jumpers. Yet, he worked on his jumper and is significantly better now. Kidd is now one of the more complete players in the league. For me, it's frustrating seeing Steve make bad passes or no passes at all. Yet, he has the talent and potential to get better in that area. Once he does, he'll be one of the best "total packages" in the game. He's definitely my choice for PG.
Finally a point in which we can really agree on. 1 guy playing and 4 guys watching does not work. The offense will become stagnant and\or predictable and the defense will not be kept honest. This is why running only ISO's (aside from being boring) never really works. I think that the point of contention here is whether or not our current offensive woe's are Steve's fault. I say no, many here say yes. Does Steve make a few boneheaded plays yes as even the best players do. The pluses that he brings, however, far outweight the negatives. What frustrates me is my fellow posters misinterpreting Steve and Cat (to a lesser degree) shooting often within the scheme of the offense as them refusing to distribute the ball. They shoot more because they are the primary options in the offense people, it's how Rudy designed it. If you don't like it, complain about Rudy as well. Point gaurd or not, a coach wants his best player taking the lions share of the shots and on this team that is Steve and Cat. Give Rudy a chance to develop the offense and place more options in with healthy (and more reliable) players. The assist will come, but as the primary option on the offense he will never be a Stockon or a Kid. Period. P.S. - thanks ZZ' I really would like to post more but this damn thing called work keeps interupting
What defines a good point guard more than positively affecting his teammates scoring? Why do Jason Kidd's teammates shooting %'s increase when he joins the team?
This comes very, very close to expressing my long term opinion with precision. I don't want to shoot anyone down, but those who are "agreeing" with me, and asking for Steve to be traded aren't agreeing with me as much as they think. I have concerns over the long term...this year has so far heightened those concerns, but I am far from giving up on Steve as a pg...But I think it would be foolish to not acknowledge that he needs work, and that it has to start with his mindset.
