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The Rumors thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Mar 3, 2001.

  1. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    I wrote this up a long time ago and am now posting it. Sorry for the delay.

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    Well, the trading deadline came and went and the Rockets didn't make a move, so as I promised I wanted to fill everyone in on what happened the past month or two.

    We got the Hakeem scoop right and we got a lot of accolades for that, but I promised they were going to make a deal and they didn't, so I apologize sincerely for getting fans' hopes up. I know I got mine up, so I can imagine how it was for those who are fans like me and didn't know what was going on.

    So this is everything I heard during that time span.

    You'll remember this all started with <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010321.html">tacoma park legend's scoop post</a> that he heard on NBA TV the Rockets Spanish voice announcer say the Rockets were working on a deal to get a "young rebounder". That's when things started to happen here. I did some checking around from that but people wouldn't talk about what was going on -- Doc Rocket knew what was going on but couldn't say.

    I learned later this was a deal with Raef LaFrentz and Kelvin Cato as the principles (this was mentioned in the <a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/feature.cfm?FeatureID=106">Cato story</a> I wrote for the site recently). Apparently fell through because the Nuggets started winning, but Denver was very serious about moving Raef and from what I was told weeks later, the Rockets were close to getting him.

    Anyhow, you'll recall heypartner posted that the Rockets were talking with Dallas about an Hakeem swap, and the young rebounder could be Donnell Harvey or Etan Thomas. I checked and was told it wasn't a deal with Dallas (remember, I was asking about the "young rebounder" rumor). So I posted that.

    <table align="right"><tr><td valign="top">[​IMG]</td></tr></table>Like the next day or hours later (can't remember), things changed quickly and I was told a deal was definitely going down and that it seems "my friend" (heypartner) knows what he's talking about. Never said but it was clearly implied that the player being dealt was Hakeem and that it was to Dallas. Hence why I said in my reply, "I retract all my comments previously in this thread" because I previously had said it wouldn't be any deal with Dallas (these were 2 different deals that crossed -- the original "young rebounder" rumor and this Hakeem rumor). Doc Rocket said, "The player being traded is being dealt because he is demanding it and simply doesn't want to be a Houston Rocket anymore."

    The next day (Sunday I think) I was told this could go down as soon as that Tuesday. I don't doubt at all something was fishy, or very close to happening, because Hakeem went on the IR that day and the day before they wouldn't even talk about it. Not Hakeem, not Rudy. They wouldn't even commit to the fact he was going on the Injured list. It was very, very strange.

    Then like a week of silence... I heard nothing so couldn't say for sure if it was dead or not. That's when people like NewGuy and JuanValdez started to get frustrated...

    <table align="left"><tr><td valign="top">[​IMG]</td></tr></table>Regarding the Dallas deal, I checked with a friend at NBATalk who is close with Mark Cuban. Cuban denied to them on the record that the Mavericks ever had any discussions with the Rockets "for Hakeem". Blowing smoke or not I don't know, but heypartner and Doc Rocket were two completely different sources on that. heypartner's story on how he found out about it wasn't made up and Doc knows what is going on.

    Hakeem was also given permission to talk with Phoenix and Miami and talk he did.... for a while. Several trade scenarios were discussed I was told -- some that would "blow me away". Again, I didn't know any scenarios on that -- but the Chronicle would later mention Cliff Robinson and Penny Hardaway in one. I assumed something around Tom Gugliotta, but again -- I never heard details on any of that.

    Keep in mind though, ALL of this stuff up to this point I was told BEFORE Hakeem went public in any way, so if all of this was accurate, why wouldn't the Dallas deal have been?

    Anyhow, at some point Vancouver came soundly in to the picture. Apparently the Rockets did not want Big Country early on and weren't overly thrilled with Shareef's defense either but they came as a package at that time (?). That's when I heard the Rockets would pass on Shareef now for just the chance at Chris Webber. Webber, Webber, Webber... that's what it was constantly for a few days. They were not losing cap space -- that was the rule. That's also when we started to get the idea the Rockets weren't going to deal Hakeem, period, without getting equivalent cap space.

    That is also the big reason there was a very strong possibility Dream would be waived, giving him the chance to sign wherever he wanted. Hakeem wasn't being as nice behind the scenes as he was in the media -- he wanted out and now. He wasn't taking no for an answer. The Rockets weren't taking Phoenix' or Miami's cap garbage, thus the strong possibility he'd be waived outright.

    I heard lots of different rumors regarding Vancouver. One was Shareef, Ike Austin, Kevin Edwards and Doug West for Hakeem and Kenny Thomas.

    I have no idea how Hakeem would have accepted a deal to Vancouver.

    After that, things got quiet again.

    <table align="right"><tr><td valign="top">[​IMG]</td></tr></table>Now here's where it gets cruel to say this, as one person pointed out...
    I heard there was a strong possiblity the Rockets could deal Walt Williams, Kelvin Cato and up to four (4) first round picks for Shareef. Obviously this is what had me very excited (if this went down "we'd all be partying"), but it sounded like a pipe dream. Thing is, Vancouver supposedly wanted this and were the ones who made this proposal. It doesn't completely work cap-wise so perhaps 3 teams were needed, I don't know. Even though it was a very strong possibility. Either way it didn't happen and it's a shame because the Rockets would have sacrificed a bunch of draft picks, but gotten Rahim and still had a shot at Webber (in other words, still had cap space to move around).

    I never heard anything from that point to the deadline... nothing. It was like once Hakeem was resolved to play it all shut down. I just read about the Brad Miller rumors in the different papers... everything else was quiet. Elton Brand? Uh, no (though that rumor of Walt, Cato and multiple picks made sense to me).

    The only reason I did not come on the board early on and say the original Dallas deal was dead is because I never heard it was dead. There would be long periods of silence for times, then something would pop up, then long silence again.

    Believe me, it was a very frustrating time for me (Early on in this mess, I actually turned down an invites to a Chinese buffet so I could monitor the site if news instantly popped up, a CHINESE BUFFET, PEOPLE!) and if I had any idea it would turn out like this I obviously wouldn't have said anything. I'm not like other sites that will post anything out there as fact or "hot rumor" and I would never say something was done unless I was told just that... I research stuff and this is all from an unquestionable source. I don't question anything I've heard from this source... just the understanding is the first one was "done", and things obviously changed.

    Doc Rocket also wanted me to tell everyone he was sorry about how it turned out. He also said the org just "fell out of love" with Shareef.

    Few things to take from everything that happened:

    [*] The Rockets want Chris Webber (though this was all before Mo has stepped up big time) and will go 100% after him. I've heard that from too many to think otherwise.
    [*] There are teams that want Kelvin Cato. Not that "would take him" -- they would want him on their roster. Just like past talented or "potential" players with no work ethic, Cato is a player that teams think they can be the one to "change". And obviously with good big men becoming more and more scarce....
    [*] It's all over now and the Rockets are playing well, but this offseason, with atleast 2 first-round draft picks and all that cap space, will be a fun one.
    [*] Never pass on a Chinese buffet.

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    NOTHING BUT .NET
    CLUTCHCITY.NET
     
  2. ZRB

    ZRB Contributing Member

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    That Walt and Cato for Shareef trade would have gotten Carrol Dawson GM of the year honors. Getting Shareef AND having cap space- wow. But I like this team now. I think this is a great group. I am glad nothing went down, and Hakeem will get to end this season as a Houston Rocket.

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    "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
     
  3. PhiSlammaJamma

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    And you know they got a call from Jordan.

    Thanks Clutch.

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    humble, but hungry.
     
  4. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Contributing Member

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    Thanks Clutch. Your explanation is above & beyond the call of duty. It sounds like it was more frustrating for you than us. I know that I'd have a hard time keeping some of those deals quite.

    By the way, thanks, now I'm hungry for Chinese food & there isn't any place open this late. [​IMG]

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  5. tacoma park legend

    tacoma park legend Contributing Member

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    Thanks Clutch. Nice to hear the specifics of what might have gone down.

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  6. vj23k

    vj23k Contributing Member

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    Which is why the site is a much better website than bskball.com or NBAtalk.

    Thanks for letting us know what the deal was.

    Wow, if Abdur Rahim, Webber, Stevie, Shandon, Cuttino was even remotely possible every Rockets fan in the world would be jumping up and down.

    But we would also lose four first round draft choices, and our only true center(If we sign webber, No Hakeem).

    Stil a GREAT deal though

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    Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
     
  7. wink3

    wink3 Member

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    The majority of those proposed transactions were appealing, but the Rahim deal for Walt, Cato, and a crap load of picks is leaving me wincing from remorse for the sake of the rockets org. Rahim and Cap-space was just too good to be true. [​IMG]

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    Don't look at the feet
     
  8. Francis3

    Francis3 Member

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    Thanx Clutch. Can any imagine a team of

    Hakeem
    Webber
    Shareef
    Mobley
    Francis.

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    "Break off the block like Maurice Green" --- Steve Francis

    President of the Moochie Norris fan club.
     
  9. wrath_of_khan

    wrath_of_khan Contributing Member

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    I've been thinking for a while now that this could be the most significant offseason in Rockets history. Part of my rationale is that the big, franchise altering deals (or non-deals in the case of the Hakeem/Seikaly trade) have usually occured during the season -- picking up Glide, dumping Ralph, etc. (the exception being the Moses deal). I can't remember the last time the franchise was at such a crossroads. We have a major decision to make about the center position. We have two first rounders in what could be the deepest draft in 10 years. We have sucessfully positioned ourselves to be major players in free agency. And we also face the question of what to do about significant role players like Shandon and Moochie. Role players like these are the kind of glue you need to win championships.

    So many questions:
    • How much is this Steve and Cat's team?
    • Are we going for championship run now (Webber)? Or in 2-3 years (trading up in the draft)?
    • Is this essentially the team we're going to war with (i.e. signing guys like Mo and Moochie to lucrative contracts and restricting our ability to make future moves)?
    • Are we going to have the personnel to be a great (i.e. championship-caliber) defensive team?
    This offseason, in my opinion, will go a long way in determining if we're a perennial playoff team with a limited ceiling (a la the Phoenix Suns) or a team that is truly on the rise (think a Kings team not about to lose CWebb to free agency) ...

    It's going to be very important. We might not know the true effects of this offseason for 2-3 years.

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    [This message has been edited by wrath_of_khan (edited March 03, 2001).]
     
  10. Valio!

    Valio! Member

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    Thanks for filling us in, Clutch. Extremely interesting stuff. Sorry about the big buffet that got away.

    By the way, what were all the meanings in Doc Rocket's various cryptic messages?

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    "Segregation is an absolutely horrid practice - except when it comes to numbers and letters. I just don't think they should be mixed." - P. Mesku on his dislike of algebra
     
  11. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Contributing Member

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  12. slcrocket

    slcrocket Contributing Member

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    Thanks, Clutch. Damn, I love this site.

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    Jazzkiller
     
  13. Elvis Costello

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    If the Rockets can't land Webber, I hope the Rockets do not commit their cap room to any long-term deals to Taylor, or Anderson. There are numerous Clippers (hello, Lamar Odom), a certain Raptor, and Antwain Jameson coming up for free agency in the next few years. At some point, a big free agent will connect with Francis and Mobley and the Rockets can zoom up to the upper echelon. I just think that it is important that the Rockets make wise choices with their picks and cap space and not get into the cap rut that teams like the Knicks and Suns have been in for years.

    -Elvis!

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  14. ZRB

    ZRB Contributing Member

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    If we can't get Webber, we should just lock up the players we've got, and let them develop. There is always a chance that they will just grow into a title-contender through experience, instead of having to add new personel.

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    "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
     
  15. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    Whoa, outstanding post, Clutch. Thank you so much for filling in all the little details that everyone guessed about throughout the whole mess.

    I think it is safe to say that noone dreamcast that deal with Walt and the draft picks for SAR. It seems safe to say there will likely be a good bit of debate over the correctness of that decision. All in all, the whole ordeal was one hell of a ride! [​IMG]

    Never a dull moment at CC.NET.

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    "all your base are belong to us!"
    "you have no chance to survive make your time!"
     
  16. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
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    I have a feeling these potential deals will not be remembered as much as the Clippers remembering that they could have had dream for Danny Manning and some change.

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    ``It's bigger than chalupas,''.....Wesley Person
     
  17. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    Thanks Clutch, that's obviously above and beyond the call of duty.

    I truly respect all of your efforts and accomplishments in balancing the needs of the curious users w/ the needs of privacy for the Rockets. I hope that sentence made an ounce of sense. I'm very tired. [​IMG]

    Great job, over and over and over again.

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    I'd rather be boinking my wife.
     
  18. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Contributing Member

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    You know what makes me proud to be a Rockets fan? This damn website.

    Thank you Clutch, for making this all come together.

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    "We got f*cking smashed every day. And then when we came here to Beverly Hills, we had drugs, we had chicks, we had orgies. I thought I'd died and gone to f*cking Rome"
    ---Ozzy Osbourne, on the early days of Black Sabbath
     
  19. Timing

    Timing Member

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    I have to echo Achebe. Thanks for all the effort to keep the fans informed!

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    "Relax... kids swallow quarters all the time. If she craps out two dimes and a nickel then start worrying!" -Grumpier Old Men
     
  20. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    Thanks, Clutch and (as usual) excellent work. Sorry you had to miss the buffet!

    I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but I would have preferred the Cato-LaFrentz deal. Out of KU, I hated his game, but with the Rockets current offense Raef is perfect. Now this would have me "partying in the streets":

    5) Raef, Dream (resigned @ Vet. min.), Collier
    4) CWebb, KT, 'Los
    3) SA / Draft (Battier?) / Walt / Langhi
    2) Cat / SA
    1) Steve /Moochie

    IMHO, this lineup is better at every position than the Kings current lineup (although SA vs. Peja is arguable).

    The fact that Cato is a BYC player probably squelched the deal.

    Thanks again, Clutch.



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    GATER
     

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