The Rockets need to trade Steve (with apologies to MacBeth)

How many playoff games would the Rockets have been in if they were in the East.


You can't compare the two.

 

Yeah and Steve has the aggression that Yao needs

It goes both ways

 

Nice presentation Train, but I would rather deal with too much talent than not enough. Steve is an all-star and one of the good guys in the league, Yao has a few years to go before he can claim "the man" status with this team.

 

I like Steve, but I wouldn't have a problem with trading him if the following weren't true:

Yao Ming ain't no Hakeem.

 

The biggest problem right now seems to be Steve (and Mobley's) inability to throw a entry pass when Yao is being fronted. Thus, defenders are always fronting Yao and he's unable to get the ball. If they could learn to throw over the defense (the way Padgett did against Miami), you'd see Ming get a bunch of easy baskets and thus the defenses would stop fronting Yao.

Yao, on the other hand, needs to start boxing out and grabbing rebounds rather than tipping them to himself. The Rockets are getting killed on the offensive glass against alot of teams and Yao's inability to rebound properly is costing us.

So in response to the main thesis, the Rockets should not be trading either player at this time, as both can develop chemistry by learning a few basic skills.

 

That is nothing more than an excuse. In this modern NBA when just about every team makes the playoffs, Francis hasn't. Why is that? Perhaps Francis isn't as good as some make him out to be.

I can compare the two, Francis is way overrated and all Paul Pierce has done, at the college level and the NBA, is win.

 

Lets wait until the Rox have actually showed that they cannot play like a team (Helllooooo 5-1) and Yao and Steve decide they cannot play together before we start breaking up the heart of the team and telling them that they can't play together in harmony.

 

Unbelievable. The Rockets are 5-1 and statistically are playing the best basketball of any team in the NBA and folks want to trade Steve. I have been one of the most critical of the guard play but based on what I have seen under JVG, I really dont see this as an issue right now. Steve and Cuttino both are shooting less (15 per game for Steve and 13 for Cuttino) and the offensive is running in a much more efficient manner. Im not exactly sure what people want right now, but #1 in the league in FG% is a good thing. Sure the team has things to improve on ie reducing turnovers, but they are #1 in the league in FG% folks. That is HUGE improvement from last yr and has happened in only 6 games.

I have seen a ton of improvement so far from the guards under JVG. If youve noticed, JVG has Francis give up the ball IMMEDIATELY when he crosses the halfcourt stripe and move effectively w/o the ball. This allows multiple passes on each possession and good shots. Francis or Mobley do get the ball later in the offense sometimes, but its in a position where they can attack and not drive into the teeth of the defense. I always felt you needed a true savvy PG to achieve this result with this group, but JVG is doing it with our current cast. Absolutely amazing. It is no coincidence the shots are much more evenly distributed this season, and the Rockets are leading the league FG%. Watch the games instead of looking only at Yao's stat line.

Also, Im not exactly sure what people want out of Yao Ming this season. If they are expecting 25-14 or something its not gonna happen. Tim Duncan who was the MVP last yr was a 23-13 player, and took about 17 shots a game. Duncan has been through much more of the NBA grind than Yao. I am expecting Yao to be a 20-10 player by the end of this season and start getting more than 11 shots a game, but this will take the team getting used to the types of defenses that are being thrown at Yao.

The comparisons of this team trying to play like the Hakeem teams of old are completely out of context. Back in the day with no zones, teams could not front a big man with the weakside help cheating over so much. That used to be illegal defense. It will just be a matter of time before JVG has them reacting more efficiently to these schemes, and Yao will have to get better position. Right now, he is being beaten to his spot very easily and getting fronted a lot.

 

Good thing the Lakers traded that "Kobe" washout back in '99. He and Shaq wouldn't have coexisted, ever.

 

I just threw up again.

The threads are becoming more r****ded by the minute...

Francis is the franchise. Yao hasn't even proved he can play more then 30 minutes. Stupid fans deserve stupid teams. I'm almost hoping the Rockets get pounded tonight after reading some of these comments. Then you can talk about trading Francis/Mobley/Cato/Jackson/Taylor/Norris in any order you like...

Hell, i'm moving to Utah now !

 

Wow, Running With Scissors actually wrote a post that is non-funny, non-sarcastic, and proposing a trade! I've seen everything on this board now.

BTW, why do you have to appologize to MacBeth?

 

Look up the stats, Pierce is far better than Francis across the board (every stat category) and that's WITH Antoine Walker as the go to guy of the offense.

You basically saying you want the Rockets to be like the Spurs?

 

Oh, on the topic. Somebody else has pointed out already. Even if your theory about Francis and Yao is correct, who do you want to trade Steve for?

It's got to be another star caliber player. And the only such player who won't take the ball away from Yao is Kidd. Francis for Kidd would be an intriguing trade.

And for those who are intoxicated in our conference leading 5-1 record, let's be reminded that the teams we have beaten have a combined record of 13-28 or a .317 winning percentage. And the only team that did beat us on our home turf is a stella .500 team. Let just wait and see how we do with a team like Dallas on the road tonight.

 

I think A-Train's initial post hit on a significant insight. Most of us here have at least played pick up basketball. The team dynamic is essentially the same in the NBA as a regular pick up game. The "best" player is decided on pretty early and is hard to change. JVG said so much himself when he insisted that the best player on a team is always its leader.

Yao came in with Steve and Mobley as the team's leaders and in an ordinary team dynamic, it's going to very difficult for Yao to feel comfortable exerting his will over the team while they're still there. Leadership needs to be reset in a way. It's almost like at work being promoted above your boss. Not many people would feel comfortable becoming their boss's boss.

Please correct me if I'm wrong A-Train, but I don't think he meant to say that the Rockets would necessarily be better if Steve were traded, just that it would greatly enhance the prospect of Yao being more aggressive/demanding, and the leader of the team. Whether that model for the team would make the Rockets better remains to be seen.

But I agree with A-Train that Yao being the man seems to what a lot of fans and sportswriters (especially on the Chronicle) want to see. One possible solution is trade the team's best player so that it's clear to Yao who he needs to be.

 

Absolutely not true. I had both guys on my fantasy teams the last years, and Pierce is not better than Francis in several categories. I can look it up and prove how wrong you are.

 

EXACTLY!! Take Yao off this team and we are just as good as the Celtics. Take Steve off this team and we are probably worse than the Celtics because they can triple team Yao now.

You're Paul Pierce point is very good! Nice comment! WE NEED BOTH STEVE AND YAO TO WIN!!!!!!!!!

 

BobFinn*, if you look up their stats, you will see that their career stats are amazingly similar, except that Pierce averages about 3 more points and Francis about 3 more assists.

 

You're right ... We have not beaten anybody yet, but we have beaten the nobodies by double digits every game. By your standards many of the "powerhouses" in the conference must suck as they have lost to sub-par teams (see San Antonio).

No the Rockets have not proved themselves to be one of the elite teams in the conference, but they have proved to be a good team with good offense and even better defense. Im not sure if we can hang with the big boys yet, but we are a good team (which may not be good enough in the West)

Without Steve or Yao, our record is 3-3 AT BEST right now.

 

nope.


the ideal trade would be steve francis for vince carter.

vince would not take the ball away from yao, is a superb shooter, and has the ability to break down defenses if need be.


vince carter and yao ming would be illegal in 52 states...