People also forget that when T-Mac left during the game, the Rockets were playing like crap and were down by quite a bit. It's actually a testament to how well they played that the game became even winnable at the end. Honestly, I would expect general NBA fans or media to pile on Yao for losing 3 games without T-Mac. But for Rockets fans? This actually quite surprising. Does anyone actually think that the Rockets roster have enough talent to beat the likes of the Spurs or the Suns without T-Mac? The KG argument is applicable, because the Rockets team w/o T-Mac isn't any better than KG's old Wolves teams.
I feel sorry for you since you sound so sincere and innocent. While you complain about other's "reading comprehension ", do you ever question your own reasoning ability? I really do not want to go into any detail because I know it does not worth my time. I just tell you a simple fact: when you start a thread like "The Rockets' MVP: McGrady by far", you will not see a "discussion" you want to see, even if you are not a free registered user. It is tough.
Haha! I second the above post. Yao vs. T-mac has become something like a Republican vs Democrat pseudo-debate here. I'll just add my two-cents. Obviously T-mac is more valuable than Yao, on the court that is Yao can be a solid second option, but he often flatters to deceive and one gets a feeling that he does not fit his "superstar" billing. Neither guy seems to be clutch, with Yao the worse of the two when it comes to clutch time, when he routinely turns over the ball, gets blocked or shoots fade-aways.
Last season, Rockets' records vs their Texas rivals: Spurs: 1-1 with Yao, 1-2 with McGrady Mavs: 1-0 with Yao (and with McGrady who played like crap), 0-3 without Yao 'Nuff said.
i know yao can bring it in the majority of games. But in big games, yao turns it over like 5 times a game and it doesnt seem to get any lesser with this style of play. And yao has never been a great finisher of the game due to his turnovers and he's just too slow in the 4th. So im not very confident of yao in the playoffs when pressure is high and he's probably 7'6 of slow because of exhaustion. sorry for the pessimism on yao but if he's tired in the 10th game of the season already..the playoffs will have the same result because of increased intensity. So yao is just as good as a role player and the only all star we have is tmac. So im not very confident in the rockets in comparison with the other elite teams right now.
This year record vs Rivals: 1-0 vs Spurs with McGrady 0-1 without(and Yao played like crap) 0-1 vs Dallas with McGrady
how came this thread being voted above average? I guess some people think mcgrady should take the blame for the 4-game lossing streak ( how could he be injuried and out of action again in such a short time? ) and the winning record before his injury is probably credited to anyone other than him... never mind,T-mac, before you win a championship, or get out of the first round at least, you just won't deserve the love of houston fans
I believe I didn't limit it to just this year. I said McGrady's tenure with the Rockets. Historically (relatively short history) the Rockets just don't win without the guy. That's all I'm saying. In a general sense, I think you breaking it down game by game is a bit too detailed. For every game we lost and you say Tracy didn't make the difference, I can sit here and show what he did do in those games to even make it a contest, and name numerous other games that he was the single reason we either won or weren't blown out. And you can counter with more games where he just stunk it up. Game by game analysis is not the point here.
I suppose I preface it with discussion b/c I HOPE to have people keep their ePeens in check and just speak with respect...but I forgot where I was.
I'm not sitting here putting the two against each other. I'm only simply giving recognition to truly how much the guy means to this team. I'm not a ToF, YoH, etc. or whatever the other acronyms mean. I'm a Rocket fan that cheers for Mac, Yao, and our other players the same. You'll read my posts and I even defend Rafer to no end. I think everyone is used to people wanting people to choose one or the other. I choose both, as I said, it's just basically giving props where I think they belong.
I guess like I said, the team lives and dies with McGrady. If he's not playing at the top of his game we can't win the tough games. That's obvious. With Yao out, he held the team together to help lead us to a 52-win team. I don't think Yao could have done that. You are talking about teams that are the super-elite. We aren't there. Tracy NOR Yao are NOT the reason why we aren't.
I don't really understand what you are trying to say. But I'll try: Again, this is not limited to this season, but if you want to talk, let's talk. McGrady is a huge reason we were 6-1. Mike James helped that being a great spark off the bench. Battier bailing us out in LA is part of that. Yao being able to still get what...20/10 is part of the reason. You watched the games right? It was pretty clear Tracy was playing at a very high level this season and was bringing it every night. I'm not sure if you were saying he deserves credit or not. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Without Yao, T-Mac can carry us to a very good record. We wouldve been the 4th-5th seed even without Yao last year. I dont want to sound like a hater, but i think Yao's limitations are holding this team back.
We agree on many things, but this is one where we don't. *sniff* hahah I think it's the supporting cast. It was good *enough* to get out of the first round last season, but they didn't show up -at all- so we lost. Same deal this season. Our supporting cast is even better! But if they don't show up at all, we don't look too good. Add to the fact that one star was out, and we have ourselves a 4 game losing streak.
Rookie-ish reasoning right there. How exactly do the facts I laid out in that post of mine, which was quoted by you, lend any support to your claim that the Rockets team lives and dies with McGrady when playing against the elite teams from Texas? LOL Spurious at worst and stretching at best on several accounts. The McGrady-less team embarked on the West Coast trip after the heart-breaking loss at home against a red hot Lakers team. Yao played so so in that game by his own lofty standard at the time, but he was not the reason the team lost. If anybody still recalls, it was Padgett's two critical FT misses that cost us in the waning minute. Next, Yao played an all-around solid game against the Warriors who boasted a surprisingly excellent record at home. The Rockets led most of the way in the 2nd half, and were looking to clinch the win before a desperately miracle shot at the buzzer by Davis bailed out the Golden State. Yao had another monster game on the 2nd night of back-to-back games against the Lakers on their turf. The game went to friggin' over time, other than Juwan, Yao received virtually no help from his teammates. Yao played an almost flawless game to led the Rockets beat the Clippers in LA, earning the reputation of "You can't f***ing stop me." Still on the road, Rockets lost to the Blazers in a close game, despite Yao's superb play. Next up, without McGrady, Yao delivered another superb performance and led Rockets to crush the best team in NBA during the last decade at their home and broke 9+ yeas of winless record in San Antonio. With that win, Yao had established himself as the leading contender for MVP award in the 06/07 season. More importantly, Rockets were in an upswing momentum, with a favorable upcoming schedule awaiting. A day later, Tim Thomas broke Yao's leg five minutes in to the game, the Rockets lost without their franchise center playing the bulk of minutes, but Yao was nonetheless unfairly associated with this loss, and the 2-5 record without McGrady. It's hilarious the same TOFs/YOHs are quickly writing off the loss to the Lakers for McGrady who played 19 minutes in that game. Absolutely no integrity for those TOFs/YOHs, but no surprise. When McGrady returned, the Rockets were off to a shaky start, losing to a struggling Indiana. But thanks to a string of weak opponents and favorable schedule, the Rockets finally put themselves back on winning streak. McGrady was fabulous, but without solid contributions from Deke who found a fountain of youth and the rejuvenated Juwan, McGrady could in no way carry the Rockets by himself. The Yao-less Rockets had some inspiring wins, including the ones against the Lakers, Jazz, and Spurs. But it was evident that by the end of Yao's absence, the team was running on fumes, losing embarrassingly to such scrub teams as Atlanta (which was easily beaten by the same Rockets team at the beginning of Yao's absence) and Boston, and being blown out by the Spurs in Houston. Questions on the sustainability of the McGrady-only team were on everybody's mind, including those of hard-core YOHs/TOFs. The rest is history. Yao came back, albeit still in recovery, to save McGrady's and his teammates' collective ass. With all said and done, TOFs/YOHs wasted no time claiming McGrady's greatness over Yao, ignoring the disparaging differences in sample sizes of the two records, and the circumstances in which the strength of the opponents and schedules need to be considered. We can agree on this.
I think the difference between the two is that McGrady is much more capable of making others around him better with his passing and ability to create off the dribble. Yao opens up some opportunities for teammates with his presence close to the basket, and by drawing double teams, but I think its to a much lesser extent. Yao's effectiveness largely depends on his teammates getting him the ball in good position. Unfortunately, that was much easier to do 10-15 years ago than it is now. Even though Yao was putting up great numbers without T-Mac (and has consistently done so the last few years), the efficiency of everyone else typically goes down. Why? Because the guards now have to create more shots for themselves and eachother to make up for T-Mac's absence. When Yao is gone, his minutes were replaced by Dikembe and Juwan. Their efficiency as offensive players never really depended on Yao, and their role didn't require them to step up their shot creation abilities very much. And, in actuality, with increased minutes they started to play better and more consistently (that's what tends to happen). With offense running much more through T-Mac, turnovers decreased and overall efficiency increased. Considering the personnel and their respective talents, perhaps that shouldn't have come as a surprise. T-mac depends less on his (offensively deficient) teammates for being an impactful offensive player, and consequentially he's more capable of carrying them. Even when he's not shooting well, I'd argue that he makes a significant contribution on the offensive end. With Yao, not so much.
I can't take you seriously if you are going to use "LOL" in your post, haha. Just kiddin'. What I read from your post is, you are saying above is that the Rockets also need Yao. I never said they don't. I don't deny he was the man early in the season last year before his injury. He was money down the stretch. That was then though. I still have very high hopes and expectations of our big man. I suppose we have to agree to disagree, which is just fine, if you are saying Yao is of more importance than Tracy to this teams success. I just personally feel that in evaluating that point, upgrading McGrady is a bit tougher than upgrading Yao. It's just how I feel. With that said, like I mentioned above, I think Yao can still yet get better. And that's a scary statement when talking about a 25 and 10 guy. I'm not in anyway proposing a trade. I'm the type of fan that wants the guys we have to win and to work through hard times. I think the main idea in my noggin is this. With Tracy or Yao or both, we'll make the playoffs just about any season. We need both to perform at least marginally well to compete most nights. When there is 5 mins left in the 4th, I do want Yao and Tracy splitting shots. I feel I can count on both. But when its really down to the wire. My confidence in Yao isn't as strong as in Tracy. I suppose that is where I feel that this team will only go as far as Tracy can take them. Maybe it's more b/c Tracy has more "flash," or perhaps he's just got that quality so many refer to as "clutch." This discussion was not meant as a diss or a discredit to Yao's importance and play. You don't think Tracy is all that, that's fine. I argue otherwise. Many times our entire team is suckin and Tracy somehow is just able to score and win the game single handedly. Yao has owned many games, yet we still tend to lose. Maybe it's selective memory, it's just the general feeling I get.
That's more telling that the supporting cast blows moreso than how good of an individual yao or mcgrady is. It's very sad how the team couldn't create their own shots and people expect this team to win a championship?
