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The Rockets do not need and will not acquire a backup SG

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by The Cat, Jun 14, 2001.

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  1. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    After just reading someone mentioning that for about the 50th time, it's time to dismiss this ridiculous notion. Where to start?

    First, you have to go by minutes. If you don't recognize that Moochie is one of the best 6th men in the league, you haven't been watching many games. He changes the pace, breaks down the defense, gives Steve more chances to concentrate on scoring, and above all, he is clutch. You can count on him to deliver when it counts.

    So, based on that, how many minutes per game do you think he should get? Well, if you're one of those people dreaming of Forte or others in the draft, you are going to have to give them time on the floor, and he is not going to play the 3. As a result, you would be giving that man the majority of minutes behind Cuttino. If you want Steve to play 38 minutes per game, like a franchise player does, then the notion of acquiring a backup SG means he would play almost all of those minutes at PG. So what does that leave the Mooch? 10 minutes per game. He is an excellent player, and there is no way in hell that Rudy or anyone with a sane mind would limit his minutes to 10 per game.

    And the topic of injuries may come up. God forbid, Steve or Cuttino could get a long injury one of these days, and we might need another guard besides Moochie and Steve or Cuttino (whichever isn't hurt) and Sean Colson. Then you just have an SF play some SG. Walt, Langhi, and most of the small forwards in the draft are easily capable of playing some backup minutes from the two spot in case Steve or Cuttino ever got an extended injury. But you can never build a team around planning for injuries, because the likely scenario is that Steve and Cuttino will not be hurt, and if you acquire a pure SG like Forte you will either be sticking him on the bench all game or limiting Mooch's minutes to 10 per game.

    Want some evidence of this? Look at the NBA's teams with elite backcourts. They consist of 3 players who get the majority of minutes, one of which being versatile enough to play the 1 and the 2. They may have another guard on the roster, like the Lakers have Ron Harper, the Bucks have Rafer Alston, etc., but they essentially play the same role as Sean Colson for us-- just being there in case someone got hurt. They won't play any significant minutes, and you don't draft someone like Forte, Hassell, etc. to sit on the bench in case of an injury. Here are some of the teams with the NBA's best backcourts-- and look how many players they have in their guard rotation.

    Lakers-- Derek Fisher, Kobe Bryant, Brian Shaw
    Bucks-- Sam Cassell, Ray Allen, Lindsey Hunter
    Mavs-- Steve Nash, Howard Eisley, Michael Finley
    Hornets-- Baron Davis, David Wesley, Hersey Hawkins
    Knicks-- Mark Jackson, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward
    Raptors-- Alvin Williams, Vince Carter, Chris Childs
    Sixers-- Aaron McKie, Allen Iverson, Eric Snow

    Need I go further? There is a need for a 4th guard on the team, like a Sean Colson, but only in case of injury, blowouts, etc. When you have two elite guards who are going to contribute big every night and command 38 minutes per game (at least), you only need one solid guard off the bench, or minutes become too hard to come by. (assuming one guard is versatile enough to play both positions, and Steve is) All drafting Forte or someone does is make the lineup look better when you write it out. We're trying to build a realistic winner, not a Dream Team that looks stocked at every position. Stop with the Forte talk. Please.

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    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

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    #1 The Cat, Jun 14, 2001
  2. Yaniv

    Yaniv Member

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    I agree you have a good point , but we need to draft joe johnson if we can , this guy will be a perfect for us he can play 3 or 4 and he is an excellent all around player.

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    #2 Yaniv, Jun 14, 2001
  3. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Sure Cuttino commands 38 minutes a night, but there are going to be plenty of nights when he won't be able to thrown the ball into the ocean. Mobley is still streaky, and it can't hurt to have Forte come off the bench as a sparkplug. We have 12 roster spots. A minimum of 4 of those should be used on guards. As for Walt playing the 3...he is just too damn slow to guard guys like Kobe, DA, MD, etc.

    Forte would serve a Vinnie "microwave" Johnson type of role on this team- he could heat things up off the bench. Also, Cat you're forgetting Tyronne Lue off your table, who's having an excellent series. Maybe Forte could be our Lue?

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    #3 Baqui99, Jun 14, 2001
  4. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I assume you mean the 3 or the 2. Joe Johnson would be an excellent pickup for this team-- he could step in right away and contribute at the 3, and his ball handling and shooting would fit well with this team. And, in the event Cat or Steve got hurt, he could play the 2. If you're looking for a backup SG in that fashion, that's fine. Someone who plays the 3 but can slide over is perfectly fine. But drafting someone like Forte, completely a 2, drafting someone for the sole purpose of playing the backup 2 position, or seeing the backup 2 as a need to be addressed in the draft-- ridiculous.

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    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

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    #4 The Cat, Jun 14, 2001
  5. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Baqui,

    If Mobley can't throw it in the ocean, then the idea is to move Steve to the 2 spot and bring in Mooch as that sparkplug off the bench.

    Maybe Forte could be our Lue?

    Lue never even played until the Finals, and I seriously doubt someone like Forte would be content not playing except in certain situations. The Lakers also have a couple of other variables to deal with that we don't. Derek Fisher is almost useless if he is not hitting his shot, which was the case in game 1, so there isn't much point in keeping him in the game. That won't happen with Steve and Cuttino-- they impact the game even if they arent shooting well. And Kobe is large enough to consistently play the 3, and allow two other guards to play. Cuttino will play the 3 from time to time, but he cannot do it as consistently as Kobe does, esp. against teams with larger SFs.

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    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

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    #5 The Cat, Jun 14, 2001
  6. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    I agree w/ your second post TheCat... but I'm not sure which guards out there are best equipped to do 3 man/2 man work. Is Vlad Rad Damme quick enough to man the two? If Cuttino goes down do you really want Moochie Norris starting at #2? Is Steve Okay w/ sliding over?

    I think that manning the backup 2 guard isn't necessarily a bad idea. Particularly if you go for a SF type that's locked into a 3 or 3/4 body.

    Certainly worse things could happen, than say:

    13 - (Vlad Rad Damme, Woods)
    18 - (Bradley, Vlad, Hunter)
    23 - (Joseph Forte, Ken Johnson)

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    girl you looks good won't you mock that draft up?!
     
    #6 Achebe, Jun 14, 2001
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Who's been saying we need a backup SG? I think the way to build the team is with 5 pure-positioned guys and 4 guys who can play adjacent positions (1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5) and 3 extras as specialists or projects (or busts). Plus 3 guys on the IR.

    PG Norris
    SG Mobley
    SF Williams
    PF Thomas
    C Olajuwon

    1/2 Francis
    2/3 Anderson
    3/4 Taylor? (We don't have a good swing-guy here)
    4/5 Collier

    Extra: Cato
    Extra: Langhi
    Extra: Bullard

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    #7 JuanValdez, Jun 14, 2001
  8. DearRock

    DearRock Contributing Member

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    I agree with Cat. We cannot take a SG based on what is on our team. If Anderson is gone then there is Williams who should play in the backcourt. Picking at #23 we should look at SF,PF or C based on our earlier picks. Our needs are, Center and Small Forward and the three picks should reflect that.

    I would like Rad, Wood and Morris

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    #8 DearRock, Jun 14, 2001
  9. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

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    Cat I don't see Moochie as an elite 6th man yet. He is a nice change of pace and is very effective but I wouldn't call him one of the best 6th men.
    I wouldn't discount taking a SG. I always think take the best player available. We are not one player away from competing.
    Also you forget to mention that the Lakers also have Harper as a guard, and Lue. Lue played great D in game one in the loss and Harpetr is still a wily vet who (when he gets the minutes) is still effective.
    I think there is room on any roster for 4-5 guards, and I am not totally sold on Colson. I f we could add an athletic SG and he is the best availalble I say go for it.
     
    #9 4chuckie, Jun 14, 2001
  10. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    thank you the cat!

    i'm tired of hearing about drafting gilbert arenas, trenton hassell, and joe forte.

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    #10 smoothie, Jun 15, 2001
  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    The Rockets do not need another SG. They may acquire a bench warmer or a big third guard if the rockets think a three guard lineup may be able to break the zone.

    Methinks that Mobley gets 5 minutes a game at the three. This is an average...expect games of 15 and games of zero depending on the mismatch.

    Bye, Bye Shannon.

    I'm just speculating about the Rockets staying at three guard...just keeping an open mind....but I haven't heard Rudy mention Jason Richardson....probably nothing.... [​IMG]

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    #11 Joe Joe, Jun 15, 2001
  12. tacoma park legend

    tacoma park legend Contributing Member

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    True, however, don't be surprised if the Rockets do draft a Joe Forte type with the intention of packaging him in a deal to another team.

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    #12 tacoma park legend, Jun 15, 2001
  13. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    YOU MISS THE POINT- The point I made was that Jefferson is not even 6'-5" and he is definately projected as a 2. No arguement from me that we pass on a 2, even though we have no one who can defend there.

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    #13 rhester, Jun 15, 2001
  14. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    Cat, let me emphasize we have no top defenders in the backcourt- and if we draft Jefferson he might be able to be a stopper in the backcourt. But don't expect Jefferson to defend and decent SF at 6'-5"

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    #14 rhester, Jun 15, 2001
  15. PinetreeFM60

    PinetreeFM60 Member

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    Cat's posts are all right on the money on this topic.

    We draft no one who is not at least 6'6", and can play the three spot primarily (or the five, of course). Several guys out there, all of whom have been mentioned many times, can play the three and slide over to play some two, as needed.

    With some of the giant twos we have in the West, there are times we need a bigger guy to slide over and give us minutes there, especially when Cat's shot is not falling. There are at least 6 guys who will go in the draft who fit our 3/2 criteria. We will get one of them.

    No way we take a point guard or a pure two, unless it is for someone else on an immediate trade.



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    #15 PinetreeFM60, Jun 15, 2001
  16. MManal

    MManal Member

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    It should be blatantly obvious after last yr that the Rockets are not going to look for any backup SG types. They passed on Morris Peterson, Desmond Mason and DeShawn Stevenson. Rudy T wants a wing player that is 6-8 or taller that fits into this system. If Mo Pete were 6-8 or 6-9, he wouldve been given a closer look, but the Rockets felt he was built more like a 2 guard. There is no point wasting guaranteed money on someone like Forte who would only be on the roster in case of injury. 1st rounders are guaranteed contracts folks, they take up valuable CAP SPACE.

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    #16 MManal, Jun 15, 2001
  17. silent j

    silent j Member

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    I think you have to have a 4th guard who is NBA quality whether it is a 3rd point, a second 2 or a swing man. Colson is a CBA guy at best. Walt Williams got killed by nearly every small forward he faced, how can he be expected to guard a 2?
    Obviously Rudy will give all the minutes to Steve, Cutino and Moochie, but if one of them is hurt, we have to have someone on the roster who can help the team when he's on the floor, not just give the starters a breather.
    j

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    #17 silent j, Jun 16, 2001
  18. TIburon

    TIburon Member

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    All I know is that we do need a backup at every position now if it is a guys like Jefferson or Johnson who can move over to defend bigger SG's then great but it does need to be addressed(not a huge priority). Those two guys would fit in well here...

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    #18 TIburon, Jun 16, 2001
  19. fatmontjellyroll

    fatmontjellyroll Member

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    i don't care about mobleys feelings here folks, if by chance a jason richardson falls Rockets should jump quicker than stank jumps on courtney love, do a little cost/benefit analysis and it always comes back to Best Player Available

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    #19 fatmontjellyroll, Jun 18, 2001
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