The Rockets are without a star for the first time in almost 30 years.

But you didn't watch anything dude like zero. I don't need to be that old to know that when Steve Francis was a prime player, we could trade him and Cuttino for a prime Tracy McGrady.

I've seen your posts to know your deal is that you want to prop up the current players by making up some random crap about the past players.

Even the biggest YOF would never pull out a hey, Yao's a better rebounder than Patrick Ewing. What Rocket fan would say why did they retire Rudy T's number to propose that Yao's number get retired? Now randomly Kyle Lowry is better than Steve Francis on a thread about Rockets stars? Steve was an OBVIOUS STAR.

Sherlock Holmes doesn't need Watson to tell him you don't really know anything about the Rockets before the Yao/Tmac days.

 

But was he fool's gold?

 

I believe the correct words are, franchise player? We have all-star type players, but not really any one player you build a team around.

 

none of our guys will be in the all-star anytime soon.

 

that's not the debate. Steve was a star and Lowry is not (doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to be one, but currently not a star)

 

If we go by PER, Kevin Martin is at early Steve's level.

 

Francis made the all-star team repeatedly bc of Yao. The real fool's gold.

 

But what are you going by to refer to a 'star'?
is it stats?

Do you think the list of stars on the first post would be better if you didn't include Steve Francis?

 

I think this is a fair statement.

Flaws and all, Steve Francis was the undisputed best player on some .500-ish teams-- and the team won significantly less games in 01/02 when he had the "migraine year." It ain't superstar-level but it ain't nothing, either. This isn't Michael Beasley and Ricky Davis jacking shots on 17-win teams.

The problem with Steve is that started out fast, plateaued by age 23 (2nd year of his career) and, because he never quite "developed" veteran skills, declined rapidly once he lost his speed and hops in his mid/late 20s.

Lowry had a very good year last season, at age 24, showed significant improvement. So, there's hope he can get better, and perhaps have a much longer careeer as a good or perhaps even near-elite PG than Steve did. Veteran savvy has served PGs like Sam Cassell, Steve Nash and Andre Miller well even into their mid to late 30s. However, I don't think he was quite as good as Francis yet-- specifically, I think Francis' had less help on his .500-ish win teams than Lowry had on last season's Rockets.

 

Francis was a one-way player. Lowry is not. Steve needed the ball in his hands 24/7 to be effective.

Allen Iverson was a super star. Francis could be contained.

Dirk is all offense too but he can board and is a match up nightmare.

 

So Francis was not a star?
And Lowry is a star?

 

I love lowry but other than the occasional steal - what is he doing without the ball that's so effective ? He's very good with the ball, drawing fouls, making passes etc..and he's not the 0 on defense that Brooks was....but without the ball? Is he setting killer screens or boxing people out or doing other intang-i-whats? And let me repeat, I love Lowry.

 

No, Lowry has the potential to be the better complete player. We all know who has the better work ethic.

You can read on his defense in this thread -- http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=203451

What I meant is that Lowry doesn't have to dribble out the clock to be effective. He makes quick decisions and gets others more involved. His improved 3 pt shot (catch and shoot) is also what I meant. He had games in which he couldn't miss a shot this past season.

 

He's an excellent rebounder and an above average defender. I recall him snagging a few charges now and again.

 

How dare you forget this stud!

 

I think Francis was a star based more on potential. He put up a 21.6 PER in his second year, which is a lot more exciting than KMart putting up a 21.4 PER in his 7th.

But Francis never put up a higher PER the rest of his career.

 

Lowry might be "excellent" but that makes Francis "otherwordly"

Francis pulled down 7 a game one season - he has him pretty soundly beaten in that category (until his leg fell apart) - Lowry has never approached him in either raw or adjusted #'s.

 

Yes if Lowry were to play at that high a level for 1.5 years I think there is an argument to be had there.

 

Guess we haven't had a star on the court for several years, some fans actually don't know what IS an all-star.

 

Kevin Martin is an all-star caliber player. His numbers sure do support this notion.