max, i respect what you're trying to do but the farthest i can go is to wish others well and hope they reciprocate.
Can't get enough of good posts... MM Totally agree In fact I like to carry it a little further... Just look at the average bank account of the typical American Christian and the Jesus model bank account and it doesn't take long to see how separate Jesus can be from a sphere of life in America "if you can't handle your money as I did mine how can I give you true spiritual riches?" (Jesus)* Jesus had power to heal lives, but didn't have enough money to buy lunch, purchase a pillow or pay for his funeral... "how hard is it to enter my Kingdom when money holds you back?" (Jesus)* *rhester translation A bible teacher told his class this story- Christianity started in Palestine as a fellowship, it went to Greece and became a philosophy, it spread to Italy and became an institution, it migrated to Europe and became a culture and finally it crossed over to America and became a business. Martha, the youngest student in the class raised her hand immediately. The Bible teacher asked "Martha, did I confuse you?" Martha responded "No, but I thought Christ's church was a body" The Professor said "Martha, You are correct." Martha then asked the question that changed the Bible teacher's life: " Well if a body becomes a business doesn't that make it a prostitute?" I agree with MM- live as Christ's body on this earth
this is it in huge bunches!!! Jesus spent a lot of time talking about money and resources.....and how they can be tools but also huge impediments. where is your treasure? because that's where your heart is. is it in your bank account? your car? your home? partnership interest? that's where you'll leverage your time and your resources...where you heart is...where your treasure is. the "trick" is in the tranformation of what you treasure. i'm not there.
dude, you're totally in, then! welcome to the club!!!!!! our next meeting is a potluck at martha sue's. bring brownies if you can!
As the late great Frank Zappa once said, "Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over..."
Thanks for the answer. The concept of "seperation between church and state" didn't exist until the Enlightenment and in some societies still doesn't exist. What I wondering about is in a democracy what role does religion play. A lot of us think of democracy as working against religion but at the same time it seems to me that the tools of democracy can be used to further a religion. It also seems to me that a proselytizing religion that followers would be compelled on some level to use democracy to advance their religious views. To bring this back closer to the topic. Many of us, including Christians like yourself, have criticized the Religious Right for injecting religion into politics but if they can't separate religion from the rest of their lives then shouldn't they be looking to inject religion into politics and use political tools to spread the Gospel? I'm raising this as a philosophical issue I'm pondering myself as someone who strongly believes in the separation of state is how do you balance that with democracy. For example I've been discussing with Giddyup in another thread the imposition of beliefs. In a democracy there are winners and losers and the winners get to impose their beliefs on the losers by writing the laws. We have compromized that with a republican system and the Bill of Rights but then how much should we condemn the Religious Right when they are doing what they see as what their religion dictates and what democracy allows.
My concern with the Religious Right isn't that they're trying to inject the Gospel into culture....it's that they're trying to inject something else into the culture that is NOT the Gospel. For the record, I'm all for separation of Church and State...though that's vague and mired in shades of grey. I don't want the Church to be so busy seeking to secure political power. When it does that, it misses the mark. Likewise, I don't want anyone to feel compelled by the State to adopt any religion or philosophy. And honestly, the equation between the Cross and the flag is offensive to me, because the flag has done a lot of things I wouldn't want associated with Jesus...and the Church has done those things, too....and I would prefer all of that be rooted out of the Church.
I thought Abraham's covenant is more legalistic in the sense that you have to obey the rules in its entirety, while Jesus shifted the covenant into more about giving in with your heart and mind because blind adherence to the law ultimately corrupts the original meaning. Other members are more well versed and spoken than I am to discuss the matter. Because extremists are passionate enough about a subject to vote. Democracy is all about the voters. If 30% of a population out of a thousand will vote, then a politician only has to appeal to 151 people to win. Maybe he's damn good looking, so he gets 50 votes from that (estimating out of my butt). Some vote straight ticket with their political affiliation. That's another 50. All that's left is around 5% of the entire population he has to appeal. How many die hard extremists will one need to vote in proportion to the population? They may be disgusting to a sensible person, but a politician is in a dogfight with another guy who's just as ruthless and desperate as he is. I don't know for sure. Real numbers are not that simple. I do know that while politicians might not be good public servants, one thing they're great at is surviving in a cutthroat environment...definitely more adaptable than a free market capitalist.
Well let's fact it, that is exactly what they did. Anyone with a bit of worldliness knew that Reagan and the Bushes were not social conservatives, but it did work to get the Christian working class to vote against their economic interests.
