For those of you who deny the existence of the extremist Republican. It would seem DS's 'presumption' was spot on.
It is that simple. It's called the labor market. It is very efficient. The answers to your questions: Yes. Yes. The market.
I'm not a social darwinist...i do believe that you have to have some level of support for people down on their luck. I have no problem with a welfare system that encourages people to seek employment...you don't feed a man's soul by giving him food...you feed it by allowing him to do the job that feeds himself, his family and his own sense of worth. That's real compassion, if you ask me. (of course, you didn't ask me! ) Allowing people to become dependent on a handout is not compassionate in my view.
Man are you off the mark. If you support the enabling of people, leaving the training wheels on forever so-to-say, then your 'scathing' comment means nothing to me. For the record--a. It would be hypocritical for me to oppose abortion. b. I am for a parent choosing where their school tax dollar goes and where their child goes to school. c.worthy loans, not handouts. d.I think money should be piped into inner city communities. e. I don't have a racist bone in my body and I want to see a naked transexual named He Li Xiu (see other post). and f. I could give a **** about tax cuts I am happy earning, EARNING, what I earn, even after I pay the gub'mint. Ah screw it. I just re-read my post and I'm sticking to my guns. We have differing views, thats' what makes this country great.
A victory day for the Republicans. I'm not a democrat, though I'm more of a Democrat than I am a republican, that is when I can tell the difference. I agree with what B-Bob, Major, Batman and others have said here. The Democrats had no message, offered no different leadership, and deserved every loss they ended up with. They thought by giving in to the Republicans on Tax Cuts, Iraq, etc. they would be able to focus on other issues. But they were so busy selling out their principles in order to not be associated with any issues that could affect them the wrong way that they forgot to come out with their own issues. I hope this will wake the Democrats up. I think the tax cuts will horribly put the country into even worse debt and deficit spending. A big debt which racks up interest is horrible for the economy. In fact I'm among those that believes the figures that say Americans will end up keeping more money if the debt gets paid off instead of added onto. Lloyd Benson once said something to the effect that it's easy to give the illusion of prosperity and a great economy when you're writing trillions of dollars in hot checks. That's what happened in the eighties and we were left with a horrible debt. In the nineties paying off that debt more than any tax cuts which had to be reversed helped our economy bounce back. Now it looks like we're going back to deficit spending, and the Democrats rolled over and watched it happen, because they were afraid to come out against the tax cuts. It may have been unpopular and they may have lost because of it, but at least they would have looked like they stood for SOMETHING. The Democrats sold themselves out. So I don't really think it matters who won last night. Both sides apparently agree on most of the same things. On a side note, I've never noticed Hayes to be a real liberal. Hayes will argue with either side, and I disagree with him probably more than I agree with him. I'm very liberal, so I couldn't believe I heard someone calling him a liberal. Anyway Hayes backs up what he says with examples and evidence to support his cases. To just say he is a liberal and doesn't know what he is talking about doesn't make for the best debate. He's right that after two tax increases our economy started to boom. That's due in large part because we were paying off our debt. Tax increases make a debt which is bad. Also just an observation on the rich. There is no one thing that makes someone rich. Some really do achieve it through hard work, and investment in their education, dedication etc. But at least as many either make it to being wealthy by inheriting it, or at the very least having connections. Growing up rich often leads to rich connections, and having both is the most sure fire way to become rich. Let's look at our President for example. George W. Bush. Never ran a successful business in his life. All of them had to be bailed out, usually through contacts of his father or were possible because of loans at below standard interest rate(which is now illeagal.). Yet George W. Bush managed to make it to the highest office in the country. Despite being unsuccessful in all of his business ventures he's still very wealthy. Some like those at Enron and other big businesses gain their wealth though shady business dealings in addition to other assessets they already owned. Anyway I hope the Democrats learned something from this election, and things start to change.
Of course most of the money from welfare programs goes to the elderly, and it goes to pay medical costs. The myth that it mostly goes to lazy people who refuse to work is just that a myth. The fact that most of it goes to medical system is why the Clintons first tried Health care reform in their effort to reform welfare programs. Their welfare reform was to some degree successful, but it could have been even more so if health care would get reformed first.
Please articulate to me *why* you think a big debt is bad for the economy. I completely disagree, and I've posted and re-posted my classic "cut taxes, spend money" piece repeatedly. You've got it backwards. The economic reversal allowed for greater taxable income, and hence greater tax revenues. This in turn allowed for the budget to be balanced.
Chance, Not a great post, IMHO. I'm glad you "got out," (and I like your songs, by the way), but I think your logic is flawed when you say that because you got out, anyone else should be able to get out too. I don't know exactly what your situation was, but I do know you haven't walked in everyone else's shoes. And T_J, do you truly believe that baseball players are more worthwhile citizens than K-12 teachers? If you had a choice, then, and one group had to be disbanded, which would it be? A world with no baseball, or a world with no teachers in grades K-12? I can't belive I'm asking this.
I'd like to here more about this celar you crawled out of. Have you written any songs about it? Just curious. Ok, so you are against the government helping people. What about kids? What should a kid growing up in the celar do? Let's go to 5th ward and get a bunch of 10 year olds together and tell them to stop using Govt. programs to feed themselves and just get a job. Damn those lazy kids, you are totally correct. Let's just stop helping them, and if we're lucky, they'll all die out and we won't have to worry about them anymore. Disabled people, they are a problem too. Well, if we stop helping them, then we can take their genes out of the gene pool. Here comes the hard part, what about people who had jobs, but they lost them due to downsizing or corporate fraud? They weren't lazy, since they had jobs, but while in lean times, they are getting hand outs in the form of umemployment checks. Oh well, its probably their fault anyway, screw them. What about me? I'm a student and no matter how much I work, I won't be able to make enough to pay for school while taking classes full time. I rely on the government for grants and loans, but that's enabling me and many, many others. Thanks Chance, I have seen the light, I'm gonna drop out and find a job. Forget my dreams, I am a bad person for using your hard earned taxes to pay for my education. I have nobody to blame but myself. Sure, my dad is a self employed business man(not a very good one at that), and forget the fact that he has to help pay for my older brother in college and my younger sis in private school. That's no excuse. So, is McDonald's hiring? Can I get a 401k there?
I never said they were more worthwhile citizens. I essentially said they contribute more value to the economic system than do teachers. Part of the value equation is how well you do your job. The baseball players you see making millions are the best of the best. There are teachers out there who make millions as well, such as Nobel laureates and the like. Don't compare a k-12 teacher with Barry Bonds. Compare them with a AA baseball player. Our society places an enormous value on athletic entertainment. You and I would not be on this site were that not the case. Athletes meet this need for us, and are rewarded justly. If you are looking for someone to blame for this phenomenon, blame our society, not my theory -- which by the way is correct. Are you saying our labor market is inefficient?
It will be a scary two years. When Ron Kirk can't beat someone like Cornyn who had nothing to say other than Texas values, Texas values, Texas values then there is something really sad going on.
TJ, "which by the way is correct"... you crack me up. Seriously, thanks for the clarification of your stance. By the way, I know several Nobel laureates (not that I'm smart, okay, but it's b/c of my field), and none of them make much more than $100,000. They get a one time award, split with their collaborators, (and sometimes siphoned by their university), of $1 million or so. And these awards are given for research, not for teaching. So teachers (especially K-12) can only be compared, salary-wise, with A or AA baseball players. No sense in a real argument. I see your point about economic value, and it has a certain cold consistency. I just don't think good social values necessarily ever match the demonstrated values of an economy. Hence, I don't want to follow the priorities that your theory entails. I would like a system that expresses a non-economic value judgment, such as: K-12 teachers should make a lot more money than minor league baseball players. edit: Oski2005, sorry but McDonalds prioritizes hiring high-school students. They desire quick turnover in their work force to avoid unionization and climbing wages. (see the book Fast Food Nation). Maybe you should try minor league baseball. Can you hit a curve?
Yeah, that's the only thing that really upsets me. I think Kirk was a way better choice for Senator. Tell us guys, what makes Cornyn the better choice?
What is going on is the liberals have no platform. As bad as you may think the Cornyn platform was, what do you think about a party (as a whole) running on the platform of "do you like W, we are better"? I never once heard any plan offered by any Crat out there. Hell, better yet what would you rather a guy running on "Texas Values" or a guy who is running on "my mommy is going to vote for me"????
I was waiting for this post!!!!! Originally posted by Oski2005 I'd like to here more about this celar you crawled out of. Have you written any songs about it? Just curious. Ok, so you are against the government helping people. No. I am against the government helping anchors that are lazy. What about kids? What should a kid growing up in the celar do? I fully support helping underpriviledged kids. And if life totally sucks they should join the military. Like many of them do and I served with some of the best former"project kids" on earth. Let's go to 5th ward and get a bunch of 10 year olds together and tell them to stop using Govt. programs to feed themselves and just get a job. Damn those lazy kids, you are totally correct. Let's just stop helping them, and if we're lucky, they'll all die out and we won't have to worry about them anymore. Wow, did I strike a nerve. This is obviously preposterous. We need to find a way to get their folks gainfully employed. Disabled people, they are a problem too. Well, if we stop helping them, then we can take their genes out of the gene pool. I am presently sitting across from c-6/7 quad that makes $100,000 a year. He is the exception to the rule. I fully support programs aiding the disabled. Here comes the hard part, what about people who had jobs, but they lost them due to downsizing or corporate fraud? They weren't lazy, since they had jobs, but while in lean times, they are getting hand outs in the form of umemployment checks. Oh well, its probably their fault anyway, screw them. It's unfortunate that people got hosed in the Enron and Enron-esque scandals and I believe in a short termed program aiding those people. However, I like to draw a similarity between Enron with it's 10,00 or whatever employees ans a Mom and Pop liquor store with 4 employees. If Mom and Pop are breaking the law and have to shut the doors it is just as unfortunate for the four employees as the 10,000 enron people. There should be a short termed program to get these folks on their feet as well. No indefinite handouts. What about me? I'm a student and no matter how much I work, I won't be able to make enough to pay for school while taking classes full time. Bullcrap. I did it. I rely on the government for grants and loans, but that's enabling me and many, many others. Pay your loans back and I hope their were eligibility requirements for your grant. Thanks Chance, I have seen the light, I'm gonna drop out and find a job. Forget my dreams, I am a bad person for using your hard earned taxes to pay for my education. I have nobody to blame but myself. Sure, my dad is a self employed business man(not a very good one at that), and forget the fact that he has to help pay for my older brother in college and my younger sis in private school. That's no excuse. So, is McDonald's hiring? Can I get a 401k there? That is exactly the mentality that your beloved Democrats would have you have. Look, I am not evil. I am far from it. I am the most fun-loving human on earth. I am happy to the point that it's corny. And I have met maybe two people in my lifetime that I did not get along with. It takes people like me and people like you working together to find common ground and an acceptable resolution.
The athlete/teacher comparison is always a good soundbite, but really irrelivent, as TJ pointed out. There are over 250,000 teachers in Texas, but only about 100 MLB players. Supply and demand. Best of the best. Many on this board could be teachers -- some might even be quite good, but only Manny R could play in the major leagues. On another note, it seems the tax cut crew will always want greater cuts. Texas is already a low tax state in one of the lowest taxed nations of the western world. At what level of tax would you say "OK that seems fair." Doesn't assistance to the poor help us all -- even if its only to keep the poor from sleeping on our streets.
Man I missed out. My profile has been locked out since lunch! (Some left wing BBS conspiricy to keep me off the board! Just Kidding ) Anyway, the one thing that I am proud of is that I live in this country and that I can have open debates with other people without worrying if I was going to be hunted down and shot like a dirty dog. Yes I am a republican, and I do have very strong views, but I do understand something about other peoples opinions and ideologies. I respect the other sides views, distorted and wrong, but I understand were they are coming from! As far as the Republican Victory last night, I couldn't be more than happy. But the Republicans cannot ram the ultra rightwing extremist agenda down america's throat. I don't believe they will, the republican party is much more responsive to all americans than the democratic party is to most americans. Last night proved that most American are middle of the road, they do not like extremism on both sides. Hayestreet, I see where you are coming from, but you are wrong wrong wrong. I respect you opinion, but we need to agree to disagree. No hard feelings. Chance, You are the MAN! Your song was awesome. Keep up the good fight. Trader_Jorge, You made me cry with this statement You are so right that it hurts! To all the Liberals and Democrats on the Board, The Republicans have a big tent, come on in and have a hamburger and stay awhile. We are all about love!
No hard feelings. You've got a right to express yourself, just like anyone else. Can the Ms JB crowd come and have a harvest burger?
