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The Republican revolt against democracy, explained in 13 charts

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Is that supposed to mean anything. The point is that is one Individual's paradigm of political ideologies.

    "Government dhut down business BAD". That is the extent of your aren't. No nuance just a generic platitude.

    1. Even in the most liberal states like Massachusetts were I live all restaurants were allowed take out services.

    2. If the intent of limiting services of private businesses is to reduce the spread of a virus that doesn't have a vaccine to create heed immunity, then it isn't authoritarian as it's intent is to perdue the personal freedom of the Individual citizen especially the elderly and the obese in this country not to get infected and possibly die from some chode who wants to dine in during a pandemic.

    Again, your personal freedom to swing your fists ends at my nose. Apply that philosophy to pandemic restrictions.

    If a authority forces the shut down of a business for the personal benefit of individuals part of said authority, that would be authorarian.
     
  2. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    It is supposed to mean that I was not basing my argument on politicalcompass.org, I was using it as a tool to illustrate my point. I thought that was clear when I said it was illustrative. Perhaps you didn't know what that word means, like authoritarian.
    I need no nuance to explain that the government shutting down a private business to control a disease that did not originate at that business is not an example of personal freedom.
    Good for them?
    It is an exercise of authority at the expense of liberty, therefor, it is authoritarian. An information compaign to raise awareness of the dangers of COVID would not be authoritarian, and then let each person evaluate their own risk, like they did in Florida.
    I am aware of the saying, though I think you apply it too broadly. I am not free to punch you, but I am free to twirl in circles, and if you walk by and I accidentally hit you, that is not a crime. You act as though we don't have examples of states that did not do lock downs. We do. Florida remained open and are better off than New York, which did lockdowns. I would have preferred the Florida model in my state.
    That would also be authoritarian. Forcing the shutdown of the business is the authoritarian part, the rest is the justification.
     
  3. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    You can't compare lockdowns with those 2 states when discussing Covid spread. Maybe you should compare states as sparsely populated as Florida instead. Covid spread it obviously going to be worse in densely populated areas. Add in the fact that NYC is the highest densely populated city in the country, and has a mass train, subway, and bus network of commuters, unlike anywhere else in the country.

    Florida:
    Largest city Jacksonville: 1,160 people per square mile

    NYC
    27,000 people per square mile
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I gather you're a lawyer. As such you would understand the importance of preciseness of terms and particularly the importance of connotations and context. You're already acknowledging that 'Authoritarian" applies to an undemocratic state yet insisting on another definition. Either you're determined to decontextualize the term and invalidate one definition or your insistent on using the term because you understand the context and are using it to raise the other connotation. Given that you're acknowledging the other definition it does appear the latter.

    You're certainly free to do that as part of rhetoric but in terms of a substantive discussion it's clouding the issues.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Leaving aside the debate on the term "authoritarian" for the moment. I have three questions:

    Do you believe that government has a responsibility to protect the health of the populace?

    Do you believe that there are the commons, things such as resources that are shared in society?

    Do you believe that freedom can exist without a structure of laws?
     
    #105 rocketsjudoka, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
    deb4rockets likes this.
  6. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Yes. They are mandated to defend the country from foreign invasion, for example.
    Yes. There are some very well known commons, such as Boston Common and New Haven Green. Any land to which more than one person has a right of ownership or access is a common, so all easements, for example are commons.
    Yes, though I don't think it is necessary that there be no laws for their to be freedom. Absolute liberty would be freedom from coercion, and would be impossible to achieve and without coercing some people not to coerce others, they may coerce others. We can only hope to limit coercion. If there were only one person left alive, he would be free without any structure of laws.
     
  7. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    JFC.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Thank you just curious to see where you stand philosophically.
     

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