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The Republican revolt against democracy, explained in 13 charts

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    This thread and your post do not make a point -- try harder.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Oh boy.

    1. Obama inherited one of the largest economic crashes in world history.

    2. Trump inherited a growing economy that continued to grow under him.

    3. During a growing economy he decides to slash the tax burden of the wealthy and corporations and sky rocketed the deficit during a time of economic growth. Deducts usually grow during economic recessions and shrink during growth. Basic common sense. During recessions, less economic activity means less tax revenue and more government expenditures on thing welfare programs and bail outs. Trump magically did the complete opposite. He shrank tax revenue during sustained economic growth and drastically increased the deficit past a trillion.

    4. Trump's economy grew on the backs of consumer debt, stock but backs and low fed interest rates though Obama's economy also grew on consumer debt and low fed interest rates also. That type of growth is what generates bubbles.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u...d-during-the-2008-financial-crisis-2019-06-19

    ^ that was before Covid in 2019 btw. Bragging about "the best economy ever" when cost of living is still increasing, when metrics such as percentage of Americans living pay check to paycheck has remained steady and constant under his presidency, where the amount of people who are uninsured with healthcare increased under Trump, where rent and housing increased under Trump, so on and so forth means you are signficantly out of touch.

    [​IMG]

    Corporations have done great under Trump. Not the working class though. They've stagnated or in some metrics are struggling more.

    You should ask yourself what the gdp growth rate and unemployment rate was a year and a half before the 2008 crash. That should tell you how useless those metrics are. Trump didn't preside over the "greatest economy ever". That is an absolute joke.
     
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  3. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    Cheetah is like an ice breaker joke you toss in during a presentation that's otherwise serious just to get people to not take the topic or themselves so seriously. Doesn't need me to stick up for him but I usually always get a laugh with the images and comments he inserts between very serious conversations that people post on here. This is just a message board and I just think he's self aware enough to not take it so seriously and has a good knack for out pointing the posters that do and knowing what buttons to push to get them upset.
     
  4. B@ffled

    B@ffled Member

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    1) Trump’s supporters have embraced anti-democratic ideas
    The censoring of speech is the most anti-democratic idea there is. Period. It all starts there
    2) Republicans are embracing violence
    Antifa, Violent Riots over the summer killing innocents and destroying private property (and courthouses-Federal). Dem's REFUSED to denounce it.
    3) Republicans see Democrats as something worse than mere rivals
    Republicans have not called for censoring democrats or 're-educating them' or doxxing
    4) Republicans dislike compromise
    Nancy sat on the stimulus bill ...and sat...and sat... and threw in so much pork it's disgraceful
    5) The Republican Party is a global outlier — and not in a good way
    Over 75 million Americans disagree
    6) The Republican turn against democracy begins with race
    Dem platform is based on stirring racial tensions for political purposes. History proves me correct.
    7) Partisanship causes Republicans to justify anti-democratic behavior
    Two Partisan impeachments have now set the bar for impeachment so low it will not become the norm for every presidency.
    8) The crucial impact of the right-wing media
    The left wing media has more outlets and more money and has former CIA (A. Cooper ..also a Vanderbilt) as it's poster child. Total propaganda, totally coordinated messaging
    9) Republicans have an unpopular policy agenda
    75 million disagree
    10) Some of the most consequential Republican attacks on democracy happen at the state level
    4 Democratic governors defied the CDC guidelines and ordered elder care centers to take in Covid infected residents, knowing the consequences. Why would anyone do this just to drive up Covid death numbers for political purposes. One is paying the price. The others will too.
    11) The national GOP has broken government
    The Obama admin turned the DOJ, CIA, and FBI into a political weapon as proven by the false narrative of the Russian Hoax, which began by Hillary Clinton trying to cover up her email scandal and CIA director John Brennan helping, with Obama's approval. See declassified documents released by DNI Grennell and DNI Ratcliffe. No left wing media covered this. Yet it's true. Absolutely true and the documents are there for you to read if you look.
    12) Republicans didn’t care when Trump abused his power
    Are you talking about when he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden.....who is now under investigation....and also has an arrest warrant for him in Ukraine? He was impeached for that....and the whole time Barr was investigating Burisma but didn't tell Trump. Why? Because the DOJ is supposed to be neutral. Props to Barr for that. Screw him for burying everything else.
    13) Trump and Trumpism could return in 2024
    Good bye to Trump. We call it patriotism. It used to be an honorable thing on both sides of the isle. But now only the right cares about America and Americans. We don't want to censor you or throw you in jail or dox you. We are capable of having discussions with differing ideas without attacking you when we disagree. Question: How many people did Trump throw in jail for disagreeing with him? 2nd Question: How many did Obama (hint: journalists...look it up). Did Trump use the intelligence community to spy on his opponents? No. But Obama did. 100% fact.

    What you believe you stand for is what I stand for. Equality and Freedom. Unconditional. How did you let your hate for someone distort your morals? I don't say this to you, Deb. I say it to the Dem. Party. There will be a day that you realize that the party has been used by the 'powerful/elite'. You let it happen because one man got under your skin. I'm not naive...I was a fan of the Bush's when I was younger. Now I see them for what they are. These are the people that I want my candidate to stand up against.

     
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  5. IVFL

    IVFL Member

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    Interesting, but it was enough of a point for you to respond twice to. Now it just feels like you are doubling down on my point. Wait, are you being meta?????
     
  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    You made your points, so I will give you that. I still can't stand or vote for a party that turns a blind eye to a President inciting radicals to storm the Capitol while he sits back and watches. He saw the Hang Mike Pence signs, and heard their cries. He did nothing to stop it.

    I can't stand for a party who will go to the extent they did to steal the vote and overturn the election, while lying and putting doubt in people's minds for months. It was planned well in advance. Suppress the vote (during a time people were dying of Covid), and pretend the virus would go away while prancing around flaunting no masks and gathering crowds. Trump and his party have shown how little they really care about doing what's necessary and telling people the truth during one of the deadliest times in our history. Lie, lie, lie, and lie until it's second nature. I will never trust those power mongers again. 4 years was enough for me.
     
  7. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    Premium post.
     
  8. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member

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    1) False - Nobody has been censored by the government. Every person screaming censorship has found their way onto some kind of media that has widespread distribution (including many large mainstream news publications). You mistake private organizations asserting their Constitutional right to not act as a platform for certain views as censorship.

    2) False - Just about every Democrat public official publicly denounced the violence. Furthermore, the violence was not organized by Democrat party leaders or perpetuated to further Democrat political goals, unlike the attempted insurrection on Jan 6.

    3) False - See Colin Kaepernick. Also, what Republicans have mostly done is call for murdering Democrats and overthrowing our democratically-elected government. We’ve seen multiple attempts by conservative individuals to do this.

    4) False - the Democrat-led House passed a bill in May. The GOP-led Senate never passed anything, which prevented the reconciliation process in which a compromise could be reached. In fact, the GOP’s inertia was so complete that the Trump White House met with only the Democrats to work on a stimulus deal.

    5) Irrelevant

    I could keep going (and maybe I will later) but this was as bad and dishonest take as the most hyperbolic posts of Trader Jorge.
     
  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Good points. Although I never voted Democrat until this year, I can honestly say no President I served under in my military career was so pathetic of a leader. The Commander in Chief should set an example, but honesty, integrity, and respect are characteristics Trump simply doesn't have. A compulsive liar can't be trusted. He is by far the worst President in history, and unfortunately, the party itself has enabled and joined in on supporting his way of doing things. It always was, and always will be about him, and his family. He's a narcissist like no other, and as immature and selfish as they come.
     
    #49 deb4rockets, Mar 1, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Excellent response.
     
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  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    I wouldn't stake your full faith on the Democratic Party. They're as big and power greedy as Republicans. Only difference is that they believe the government can still extend the American Dream.

    Cons, at best, think you gotta get yours, and the only one you can depend on is me, myself, and I.

    Where can I subscribe to this arc?
     
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  13. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Poor leopard.
     
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  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I've heard personally from a Trump supporter say that he believes that Democrats are evil. Sadly this is where are we at.
     
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  15. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    When I voted Democrat, it wasn't because I was a Democrat party person. There are policies and values on both sides I like and dislike. I voted against Trump for President. The choice was simple. I don't believe a word out of his mouth. I will vote Democrat again if Trump, or anyone else, who licked his boots, voted not to impeach him, stood with him through all his lies, repeated his propaganda, followed his no mask stance knowing the dangers of putting so many at risk, or took part in the Stop the Steal lies and propaganda ever runs for President.

    I don't want another President with those characteristics ruling our country ever again. If they run against him and win the GOP candidate, it won't matter to me because they can't change their tune after this past term, like Cruz did after he decided to suck up to the man he called a lying narcissist when he ran against him. They chose their bed. They were too cowardly to call him out. So, it might be a long time before I vote for anyone in that party again. None of them, nor anyone in his family, will ever get my vote.
     
    #55 deb4rockets, Mar 1, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Subatomic gave some able responses but since I'm bored I'll take a crack at it. I'll post my responses in blue to keep the theme going.
    Yet speakers at CPAC including Trump, Cruz and Hawley all got coverage on major new service. I heard some of it on MSNBC.
    Ignoring the whataboutism but https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...ndemned-antifa-violent-protests-idUSKBN2712ZA
    I suppose that's why Colin Kaepernick can't get on an NFL team while Nick Foles and Jeff Driskel's still get starts. Also I guess the party censures of Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, Adam Kinzingers are really just friendly jibes. Wait those are Republicans who oppose Trump. As for not re-educating apparently no Republican has ever made an "[Educational Post]". Also for people who claim not to dox there sure have been a lot of protests at the private homes of election officials in states that Trump lost and also at health officials during COVID-19.
    A relief bill was passed in the House during the Summer that the Senate could've passed. If your argument was that Pelosi didn't negotiate more until after the election that's a fair point but it is a fact that McConnell didn't bring the House relief bill for a vote in the Senate either.
    In a world of 7 billion 75 million is a global outlier.
    Now if you're going to claim history by using Dixiecrats and the Democratic party of 1860 yes that's true but history also records that many of the Dixiecrats went on to become Republicans because a Southern Democrat pushed for and signed into law the Civil Rights Act.
    Actually both impeachments were the least partisan as for the first time Senators of the same party voted to convict. Also in the first impeachment a member of Republican party and also a member of the Freedom Caucus left the party to vote to impeach. While in the second 10 Republicans including the third ranking Republican voted to impeach.
    One wonders how Fox, OAN, Newsmax, Breitbart, the Federalists, Epoch Times and etc survive or how Rubert Murdoch became rich
    81 million and losing the popular vote in 5 out of the last 6 Presidential elections beg to differ.
    First off the statement was about democracy not COVID but taking your response on directly so basically it was Democratic governors that forced the Republican governors to not take up reasonable measures to combat the disease? Was it Cuomo that forced Noem and Burgum to not put in masks or social distancing mandates even as their states suffered some of the worst per capita death tolls? Was it Newsome that forced DeSantis to obscure infection numbers even to the point of invading the home of someone running a COVID-19 dashboard?
    Regarding democracy in Texas we saw first hand Abbot restrict the number of ballot drop boxes. Note he did this without going through the state legislature which was exactly the reason for Paxton's suit against PA that changes made during the election should've gone through the legislature.

    I'm going to take on your response to both 11 and 12. I note you criticize Barr for burying everything else. I wasn't aware that Barr was actually a Democrat. So in other words you do acknowledge that the Trump Administration did cover things up and bury things. I will also point out that while Trump promised repeatedly he would "Lock her up" Hillary Clinton was never locked up or even criminally charged. The "Russia Hoax" produced 9 convictions. While yes Trump pardoned them, a corrupt use of the pardon power, that doesn't deny that those individuals were convicted. Further you also note that Trump was impeached for his Ukraine call, yet you early tried to discredit it as a "partisan impeachment". If you're now claiming that Trump was properly checked by impeachment to counter that Republicans don't care when Trump abused his power what is it? Was it a partisan impeachment so Republicans actually don't care that Trump abused his power or was it a proper exercise by a coequal branch including Republicans?
    Of course the Right have never attacked people when they disagree. Rightwing posters here are renowed for their decorum and I guess Jan 6th was really just people angry that the Washington Football team lost in the playoffs. Also Trump has asked the DOJ to go after political opponents that he hasn't succeeded in locking people up might have more to do that he can't find actually find anything to lock people up.

    It's interesting that you argue that you're not attacking or trying to reeducate yet you question Deb's morals and say you see Democrats for "what they are" and cite that you stand for Equality and Freedom. Unconditional. Does that mean Democrats are opposed to those things?
     
    #56 rocketsjudoka, Mar 1, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  17. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    There was a bill voted on in the Senate (in September, I believe) that failed to clear 60 votes (52-47) because Democrats wouldn't support it. The Democrats didn't want to pass a stimulus that would help Trump electorally if it didn't have all of the crap attached to it that no Republicans would ever vote for (like bailing out blue states with big budget deficits).
     
  18. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member

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    The Republican bill was thrown together in a few days after the House bill sat in McConnell's inbox for 5 ****ing months. Included in McConnell's bill was a blanket immunity clause that would hold even the most bad faith employers harmless if their employees contracted COVID while at work. Everyone knew that was a poison pill, but he included it anyway.

    As far as the blue state bailouts, that's just a talking point - all states were set to get money to help offset the decrease in tax revenues due to the pandemic. However, as always, the GOP wants to punish urban areas despite the fact that the latter props up all the rural areas in this country that don't contribute a damn thing to our economy (as well as the suburban areas who glom off urban infrastructure and services, though unlike the rural areas, they at least provide tax revenue).

    What it comes down to is that McConnell wasn't interested in negotiating in good faith, which has been a pattern for him since Obama. And more broadly, the GOP Senate's failure to pass anything (or even get it to a full vote) shows their inability to do anything other than pass tax cuts.
     
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  19. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Both bills contained what the other party considered poison pills. You cannot say the Democrats did something and the Republicans didn't when they do the same thing from opposite sides.
    They provide food, which seems pretty important. The fact is, there is an urban/rural divide in America, and both are represented in Congress. The house leans more urban, the senate more rural. It is fortunate that there is one more check and balance in the system.
    Neither side is interested in negotiating in good faith, but the house doesn't require a 60 majority to pass a bill, so the Democrats were able to pass a bill in the house with a majority, and the Republicans were able to get a majority vote on a bill in the Senate that didn't pass because there are different rules. Both were partisan.
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Certainly Pelosi's House did act in a partisan manner and it's a fair point to say she didn't negotiate in good faith but it's also important to acknowledge that neither did McConnell and that he never took up the House bill that was passed and shut down the Senate right after the Barrett confirmation shows he had no interest in getting a COVID-19 relief bill passed in the Fall of 2020.

    I have no problem with saying that Democrats played politics with the COVID-19 relief but this is very much a pot calling the kettle black situation if you're defending the GOP.
     
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