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The Real Problem with the Astros

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by justtxyank, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Isn't their manager or their gm. It's their total lack of an ability to fill their minor league system with high ceiling guys over the past several years. This year was a total abomination for a major league team. Here is what each of the major league teams spent this year on their draft picks:

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/news/264679.html

    You have to be a member, so I went ahead and posted it from another source.

    Terrible.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    That's signficantly skewed by the fact the Astros didn't have a pick in the first two rounds.
     
  3. moonnumack

    moonnumack Contributing Member

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    and the fact that they failed to sign their 3rd and 4th round picks. :confused:
    It's still the Astros fault for losing picks in signing FAs while failing to gain picks in losing their own (because they're scared to offer arbitration). They also decided that trying to replenish the farm system by trading veterans at their trade deadline was also a bad idea.
    Purpura really did deserve to get fired.
     
  4. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Even if they had, they wouldn't move up but 1 or 2 spots. I don't think the Astros were the only team in that situation. I'm also curious if someone wanted to try and do past years and see where they'd stack up.

    For what it's worth, a lot of teams spend more money in the later rounds then they do in the early rounds on high ceiling talent.
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying you can't look at that number spent without considering the fact that they didn't have a pick in the higher slots. Of course they would have spent less than teams that had high draft picks.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    This is an interesting point. If, as others have claimed, the Astros were fully convinced that Pettitte & Clemens were not interested in staying (or they didn't want to give Pettitte a 2 year deal), they could have offered arbitration and gotten free 1st/2nd round picks out of it. Unless I'm misunderstanding how it works?
     
  7. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

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    The freakin' Devil Rays spent 14X what we spent? WTF!!!
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    how many picks did they have?

    in the abstract, the fact they spent more means nothing. if they had multiple picks in the first few rounds, that would explain it.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    Anyone know how much the average first round pick signs for?
     
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    This is true if arguing whether the Astros are cheap or not. But it's a good way to measure the "investment" into the minors. If they aren't spending a lot of money on picks - regardless of the "why" - it's an indication that they aren't likely to get getting great talent infused into the minor leagues, barring some lucky hits on lower-round guys.

    It doesn't say much about the cheapness or non-cheapness of the Astros, but it does say that our already weak minor-league system isn't getting a whole lot of high impact players coming in this year.
     
  11. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    The Astros could have received first round and sandwich pick compensation for Clemens and Pettitte. I didn't see a point in not offering Pettitte arbitration, considering the fact that he ended up wanting a two year contract. Not offering Clemens arbitration is more understandable because of the amount of the contract if he had accepted arbitration ($20-$22 million).

    McLane was quoted as saying they didn't want to offer Pettitte arbitration because he might accept and they'd be on the hook for another year of his salray and they had concern about his arm.

    The interesting thing will be this offseason if they choose to offer arbitration to Jennings, Lamb and Loretta. Depending on where they are graded (either A or B free agents) will decide what compensation the Astros receive if any of the above players sign elsewhere. Depending on who they sign as a FA, the Astros could conceivably have 5-7 picks between the first, sandwich and second round picks. Hopefully the Astros scoutng department will be able to hit on some great prospects with that amount of picks, and more importantly hopefully they'll sign them.
     
  12. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    The refusal to offer arbitration to Pettite, Clemens, and (before that) Kent is, in my eyes, penny wise and pound foolish. If you can't develop talent, you won't win long term, and the easiest way to get the best young talent is through the early rounds of the draft. The farm system is fairly bereft of high-ceiling talent, compared to other teams.
     
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    My point wasn't that they are a cheap franchise or something, just that they don't draft and spend money on high ceiling kids.
     
  14. Akhorahil

    Akhorahil Member

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    I wouldn't say failed. It's more like the Astros refused to pay top dollar for those two guys. The reason they didn't sign them was because those two players, advised by their agents probably, tried to get 1st and 2nd round money. They figured since the Astros didn't have picks in the earlier rounds they were due.

    No matter, neither of them are considered destined for greatness. Besides... the Rule IV, amateur, draft is overrated. Rule V draft is more important.

    It's funny to me though. Just 2 seasons ago we had an abundance of players in the minors ready for the majors. And people find it shocking that we now have a drought. This happens all the freakn time guys. Trading surplus for vets... It doesn't always result in a losing season like we have had.

    IMO the real reason for the Astros season was the WEAK pitching FA market of last season.
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    You are serious? You think the rule V draft is more important than the amateur draft?

    Tell that to most of the WS teams of the last 10 years except for the Boston Red Sox.

    By the way, the Astros have had a lot of guys come up through their system but not all of them were ever high ceiling guys. The Astros are terrible at identifying and then drafting and signing high ceiling guys.
     
  16. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Oh, it means something all right.

    It means that not only are we going to continue to be one of the worst teams in baseball, and not only is there no relief on the horizon, no, there isn't even a horizon.

    We have an abominable team, and almost no prospects for improvement in the future. The farm system is at zero, no top talent being drafted, and very few existing assets to deal in trade.

    If we have a winning season in the next five years, I will be astounded.

    Now maybe Unca Drayton will hire some up-and-coming roto-computer geek a-la Morey to run his team, and get his dumb a$$ out of the way and let him do his job. And maybe a guy like that can unearth some gems, and we can return to respectability sooner. But based on the past, there's not reason to expect any of this.

    Instead, expect just enough little moves, and just enough sermonizing about 'striving to be champions' to keep the seats mostly filled, and nothing more.
     
  17. conquistador#11

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    Carajo, Our systems in Venezuela are basically gone. we use to dominate the venezuelan market, and now...nothing. :mad:
     
  18. solid

    solid Contributing Member

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    I keep hearing in the media that the Astro's farm system is the worst in the majors. I don't know if this is true or not, but the numbers don't look good.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    not many position players.

    not nearly so bad on the pitching front.
     
  20. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i will be astounded if you're right.
     

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