"Playing" the victim? Is there any doubt that you resort to name-calling when you don't have a counter-argument? It's right here on "paper."
She was still invited to the funeral and made comments that you found unpleasant at the minimum, otherwise what was the point of bringing up that example. In that case do you then bear some responsibility under your reasoning. Considering this thread started in 2005 yes this was an issue before last week. So in other words you are saying that John McCain and Maria Shriver are just automatons with no control over what they say and that is what we should expect of them. They are blameless since they are really just mindless when it comes to rhetoric like a shark when it comes to eating seals.
It was a memorial service, not a funeral. The point of bringing up the example is that there are sometimes better ways to deal with something objectionable than to publicly rant about it. Some folks here seem to think that I should have cussed or punched her out. This was my mother's 82 YO friend coping with her loss. It's a very different situation because she was not invited, unlike McCain and Shriver, to address the entire gathering. The original thread dealt with more broad issues surrounding Tilman's death. THis sub-thread about the appropriateness of certain remarks started with the posting of a video about Richard Tillman's appearance on Maher at the end of Sept of 2010. No. I'm saying they would be surprised by this criticism. I would imagine they thought what they were saying is/was perfectly acceptable. As far as I can tell, only Richard's feathers were severelly ruffled at the time. He lashed out and six years later he's a YouTube sensation.
Wahhhhhh. Donny thinks I'm self-centered, overly righteous, and deliberately obtuse. Wahhhhhhhhhhh. Counter-argument to what, exactly? You have yet to *make* an argument. Nothing but the typical acrimony from you. What's wrong is wrong, and ignorance is no excuse for the behavior of those in question, and you're awful for trying to make excuses, once again, for someone's abhorrent (either through neglect, or through malice) behavior, and it's even worse that you're trying to pass the buck onto the family of the deceased. Despicable. Nothing to be gained from talking to you at this point, or ever, for that matter. Peace out giddy. Hope you manage to sleep at night.
What's despicable is lambasting someone for saying that they wish the deceased is with God. Is that really abhorrent behavior? No acrimony from me. You are the one belittling people.
the fact that you cannot see that this would be very offensive to someone who didn't believe in god pretty much proves everyone's point.
There were almost certainly people at that service who do believe in God. The service is for the people who attend. Pat Tillman, like my mother and father, were not in attendance at the memorial service held in their honor. No deceased person ever is...
you are beyond words. i'm gonna make a point to go to your funeral and talk about how you're nothing but worm food now, but we all laughed at your idiotic takes on an internet bbs and we will miss having you around to boost our own self-esteem. since the memorial service isn't for you, i shouldn't care if i offend your family, correct? do you feel this way about all memorial services? do you ever think that maybe there are things people shouldn't do at a memorial service? perhaps turning it into a political rally? i mean, what would you expect if you invited politicians, right?
Ah, more of the meanness. Coming here is just great for the self-esteem. Insult after insult from the likes of you... If the MS is not for those in attendance, shouldn't the family just have a private family-only ceremony? If you guys have to keep coming up with these whacked-out, contrived and extreme circumstances to prove your point, you are only proving some weird determination. Some people were invited to speak. They said some wishful, hopeful kind things about the deceased and you wish to condemn them. Sigh. If you want to come to my MS, go ahead. Go right on with your plan. You'll feel like the ass that McCain and Maria did not feel like. That will be a telling difference.
exactly. they should feel like an ass and it's telling if they don't after learning the spiritual beliefs of the man they are memorializing (may want to look up that word). you didn't answer the rest of my questions.
If you want to hang them out to dry for probably making assumptions about the spiritual beliefs of Pat Tillman and/or the Tillman family, go ahead. Their remarks were for the congregated in that place. What is the sum of those perspectives? Hard to say. Sure there are lots of things that shouldn't be done at memorial services. Agreeing to having them televised opens up a lot of undesirable outcomes. As I said, if the family was that particular they shouldn't have allowed those speakers and that format. When you approve political speakers who don't even know the deceased and televise the event, that service is guaranteed to go off-track. Who was the Minnesota senator that was killed in a plane-crash a decade ago? Remember how political his memorial service was? I think it was televised live also. EDITED FOR LINK: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,388903,00.html
I've buried two parents, a father-in-law, that I was directly involved with the details of the planning for the memorial service. Those and the other memorial services I've been to have not been for the attendees pleasure. They were to honor the deceased, and for the family. It was nice if others who attended to pay their respects also got some closure. But the service is not for those who attend. I don't know why you keep acting like somehow the family of deceased should at the moment of perhaps greatest grieving are responsible for making sure everyone else is comfortable and OK. It is so far off, incredibly unsympathetic, and almost twisted that you expect the family to look after everyone else's needs at that time. Anyone who spoke seemed to really be interested in trying to talk about who the deceased person was in their life. Neither McCain nor Maria did that with their comments. You excusing them, is mind boggling. I know we've disagreed on things in the past, but I didn't think you were such an unsympathetic person to a family who'd gone through a great tragedy.
Yes you did. You didn't use those words, but you did say that. You said the memorial service was for those that attend. Since the family is in charge of the memorial service that would make them responsible for those that attend.
In that case your example wasn't that relevant. Except in post prior to Sept. 2010 Tillman's beliefs were also a subject. That would show ignorance on the part the McCain and Maria Shriver then for not finding out ahead of time that Tillman didn't share those beliefs and that his family found those to be unacceptable. Also as far as you can tell are do you have evidence that the rest of Tillman's family doesn't agree with Richard Tillman?
